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Joan Hansen was a member of the 1984 USA Olympic team in the 3,000 meters where she finished in eighth place despite sustaining a fall with four laps remaining in the race. She finished third in the 1984 Olympic Trials 3,000 meters. Hansen set a World Record two miles indoors of 9:37.03 at the 1982 TAC Indoor Championships. She was Silver Medalist at the 1981 TAC Championships at 3,000 meters and 1981 TAC Cross Country Championships. Joan represented the USA at the 1981 USA-USSR Dual Meet, 1981 and 1983 University Games, 1982 IAAF World Cross Country Championships and 1983 USA vs Northern Europe Meet. In 1984 she finished fourth at Weltklasse Zurich at 3,000 meters and earned Bronze Medals at Koblenz, Germany at 3,000 meters and Paris, France at 5,000 meters. Joan’s top road race finishes include winning the 1982 Tucson Sun Run 15k and third places at the 1981 Runner’s World invitational 8k, 1982 Nike Grand Prix 10k and 1983 Dr. Scholl’s Pro Comfort 10k. In triathlon she won her age group at the 1990 Orlando ITU Triathlon World Championships and was fourth at the 1991 Vancouver ITU Triathlon World Cup. At the University of Arizona, Joan was a four-time All-American (fourteenth, sixth and sixth in cross country) while earning the Silver Medal at 3,000 meters in 1981. She won two Western Collegiate Athletic Association Cross Country titles and was 1981 WCAA 3,000-meter champion. Hansen set UofA records in the 1,500m, mile, 3,000m, and 5,000-meter runs, and was a member of the record holding 4x800 meter relay team. Her personal best times include: 800m – 2:06.7; 1,500m – 4:08.4; Mile – 4:32.61; 3,000m – 8:41.43; 2 Miles – 9:37.03; and 5,000m – 15:39.08. Joan was inducted into the University of Arizona Sports Hall of Fame in 1987 as was her twin sister, Joy, in 1989. She coached at UCLA, MiraCosta College, Concordia, Iowa and North Texas. Joan resides in Mesa, Arizona and was extremely gracious to spend nearly three hours on the telephone for this interview in the summer of 2023.
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THE BIG PICTURE At the highest levels of sport athletes set goals to compete in the Olympics or World Championships and to represent their country. Can you convey what it meant then and what it means now almost forty years later to be a member of the 1984 USA Olympic team, to pull on the USA jersey to represent your country and to be, once and forevermore, an Olympian?
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You have probably heard the phrase, ‘Once an Olympian, always an Olympian, never former, never past.’ That is our mantra. It’s like whenever someone graduates from a university or becomes a doctor, once you have achieved that, it is yours. You keep that with you. At the same time, because I am a twin who shared space in the womb, had our own language before we learned English and grew up together, we also look at the process of approach. The byproduct of the process of approach was to be part of an Olympic team. It wasn’t the goal. It was the outcome of a process that was working successfully. We stayed true to that process of performing and supporting other people around us.
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When you mention the process, it reminds me of when I interviewed 1976 Boston Marathon champion, Jack Fultz. He won on a hot day and then a couple of years later he ran his personal best time of 2:11 but finished fourth. I’m paraphrasing what he said which was, ‘I was in better shape, I ran better, but three guys showed up that beat me. I was extremely pleased because everything went well.’ I think that’s a reminder that we do all we can to do our best, but the outcome is often a factor of other factors we may not control, right?
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Sure, and I’ll relate something that will help all to understand this. Many journalists, spectators and other runners will look at someone who is the final person to cross the finish line and they will say, ‘That is the last place finisher.’ I don’t see things that way. I see the most recent finisher. The beauty of that is that everyone on that starting line is going out to excel and to conquer the course. When people are doing that, how can we not celebrate someone no matter where they finish? We see this in the Ironman Triathlon, Special Olympics, Paralympics and with Olympians. But, in everyday life it is joyful to see people get excited about excelling. And all should have an environment that supports them.
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Even though we focus on the process, there are goals out there and one goal on the world stage is to achieve what no one has done before. Can you describe the excitement of setting a World Record of 9:37.03 at two miles indoors at the 1982 TAC Indoor Championships, especially since Brenda Webb and Margaret Groos were ahead of you at the mile and you beat them both by just over a half second as they pushed you to that record?
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That race was exceptionally raw for me, and I’m tearing up a bit, because I’m going back into that period, and it is becoming real again. About two weeks before the 1982 TAC Indoor Championships, devastating events happened. The head men’s coach at Arizona was Willie Williams, who had taken time out to show me how to run when I had walked into his office as a new person joining the women’s team the second semester of my sophomore year. He dropped everything and took me out to McHale Center and showed me how. He committed suicide in the track shed. Two days either before or after that, tragedy happened to Cathey Givens Jackson, a Quest Club teammate and a very good friend of mine who jumped up and down and celebrated my great moments at the 1981 U.S. Outdoor Championships. We were hugging – that’s how close we were. She was running with Ed Eyestone in Utah and a high school student on drugs driving a car went across a median on a curve and clipped her killing her instantly. A few days after that, I found out that Rocky Racette, from Minnesota, was killed in a car crash with a drunk driver a while before, but that was when I found out. These three were all in a very short period and these were very powerful people in my life. They are some of the reasons that I look at humans as wonderful gems that add to my life. So, on the starting line, I was so depleted from being so sad that I talked to Brenda and Margaret and told them I didn’t have any energy to race. I said that I didn’t feel like it was Nationals, didn’t even know if I could complete the race and I could use their help. This is exactly what went through my head. I was in the race and, the first half, I felt so lousy, just horrible. After halfway, it was like something was lifting me up and I was barely touching the track. It was my three wonderful, dear friends. They were carrying me. I kept getting faster. I was scarcely touching the track. It was the most unusual feeling in my life. I went from feeling horrible to feeling wonderful. When I crossed the finish line, I didn’t even celebrate. I think it was Brenda Webb who pushed me from behind after the line because she was so close. I got my balance and went to the infield to get my warmup clothes. As I was starting to put on my jacket, a friend of mine who is a jokester came excitedly up to me. ‘Joan, Joan, oh my gosh! You broke the World Record!’ I was laughing and thought this was very funny. Remember, I wasn’t wired to focus on winning, much less to get records. I wasn’t even remotely thinking that was possible. I was thinking he was joking, and he said, ‘No, no! Look at the scoreboard! It happened!’ As I looked up, I saw ‘WR’ flashing on the screen. What is the usual response to that? I wasn’t prepared, my jaw dropped, my eyes bugged out, and photographers took a side picture of me with that look. It went out on the Associated Press wire reports, and I had friends all over the world reading articles about the race with that face – and it’s not attractive. It’s shock and awe. It was the thrill of victory. That weekend a skier, maybe Ingemar Stenmark, had wiped out so they had the two of us in the article as ‘The Thrill of Victory and the Agony of Defeat.’ That’s my memory of that event.
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As an endurance athlete, you competed in swimming, distance running and triathlon. How did the characteristics needed to succeed such as consistency, discipline and overcoming adversity contribute to and shape your life?
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| JH |
The very first thing that made the difference for me was not competition. It’s also not participation. It was performance. If you think of a stage, there are people performing the play. There are others backstage doing their jobs and people in the audience who are known as spectators. I look at it differently. The entire room of everybody involved is part of this incredible performance. Everyone is bringing something to that instant of energy that makes it magical. Performance allows room for people to excel and allows us to all feel we are part of something big. By doing that, my way of thinking was that I was hosting the party and I invited everybody to come. So, instead of looking up in the stands and seeing my family and coach that may total seven people and everyone else was someone I didn’t know, I looked at everyone out there as cheering for us. Since ‘us’ is a plural word, they were cheering for the whole group of runners. If a person interviewed me on camera, I looked through that lens and thought of that person as a friend of my brother because then he was someone to whom I could relate. No question they asked could unnerve me because I was just having a conversation with someone who was a friend. If you look through the camera lens and think, ‘there are millions of people watching,’ that will create the environment. But a genuine moment with that one person changes everything and that is how I look at it. I see ‘aim’ instead of ‘goals’ because, if you step on a stone, you get your footing and then you must look for another stone to step on. Those are terrific times when they occur, but there is hesitancy to stop and enjoy the moment. We also might become complacent or cocky. It may not, but by putting goals out there, they can trip us up. On the other hand, an ‘aim’ is like taking an arrow and firing it with a very clear target that is far out there. At the starting line of life, we have the goal of doing our best. We also have the opportunity of supporting other people around us at the same time. That’s my aim. So, when I shoot that arrow, that’s a very clean line. I can follow that and that is how I raced.
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Most distance runners, I included, after youthful sporting activities follow a pathway of running the mile and two-mile or their metric equivalents in high school along with 5k for cross country, then middle distance or long distances in college before staying on the track or moving up to longer road races. Can you describe your pathway of focusing on swimming through high school?
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My mom and dad had two kids before Joy and I were born. We were six weeks early and they weren’t expecting two babies. The doctor wasn’t expecting twins. The doctor delivered one and started to turn away and the nurse said, ‘Doctor, doctor!’ He caught the second baby. So, mom and dad had a lot on their plate. When we moved from the midwest to Phoenix, they had a real estate business that they were getting off the ground and it was becoming very successful. My older brother oversaw us. When he decided to start swimming at the age of sixteen, he decided we would ride along to his swim practice, and we would swim with his group which were high school and college swimmers. So, we ended up swimming with much older kids. We were also swimming very high distance. We swam up to twenty thousand meters a day in the summer. We swam for Bob Gillid and Walt Schluter as the Arizona Desert Rats. Joy and I ran a few races in high school without any running training at all. We didn’t have strong legs because we were swimmers. It’s like being a guppy or tadpole. We hadn’t developed leg strength. We gutted out a few performances but weren’t training for the track. We joined the boys swim team our senior year in high school by walking into the coach’s office and explaining that we swam times that were equivalent to the boys’ times. We asked if we could swim for the team. We hadn’t realized that Title Nine had passed. He said that we could swim. Since we were on the team, we talked more girls into joining. Then because there were many girls in swimsuits, more boys joined the team. We had a phenomenal coed team where everyone on the starting blocks raced together. We weren’t separated into boys and girls. The local newspaper wrote a story about us, and two more high schools joined us, Central and Camelback. So, that year in high school, we had a human team. The next year we split into a boys’ team and girls’ team. That was very special because we didn’t know we could do that. We had the comfort level to go in and ask somebody if we could. So, that was swimming in high school.
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Can you describe how you started as a swimmer in college, but transitioned to cross-country and track and field?
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In college Joy and I were both swimming on the team. Our freshman year, Joy ended up doing ‘drylands,’ running with another swimmer. Dave Murray, the men’s cross-country coach at the time, saw them and told them how wonderful they looked. ‘Wow, you look very impressive. You should go out for the women’s cross-country team.’ She joined the cross-country team and made it to Nationals because of all her aerobic strength from swimming. Only later did she realize that the coach invited them to join the team because he had to increase the number of women in sports. Joy attempted to talk me into running. When I first tried to run track as a freshman, I sprained both ankles. My sophomore year I didn’t want to run cross country because it seemed so far. My sophomore year I joined the team in the second semester and ran the 800 meters and 1,500 meters. That was as much as I could do. The beauty of that was I could practice speed and keep my mileage down. Joy and I were both injury prone for a few years. The mileage that Dave Murray wanted us to run was exceptionally high and we weren’t wired for that. When I finally realized I couldn’t do two-a-day running, I just stopped. I started modifying my workouts and that is when I started to excel. I altered and customized the training to fit my structure.
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How special and important was it for you and your twin sister, Joy, to share swimming as youths and in high school, distance running at the University of Arizona, and could you both have achieved what you did at the top of your sports after college without the support of each other?
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It wasn’t even in our hands. Because we shared space in the womb and in our home, we had a closeness that is highly unusual. Here is an example. One year we both sent a Father’s Day card to our dad. We were adults. I lived in Seattle, and she lived in Philadelphia. My dad called me up and said, ‘Oh my gosh! I can’t believe you two did this.’ I didn’t know what he meant. ‘You sent the same card, with the same message, and it was time stamped exactly three hours apart to the minute.’ I said, ‘Dad, we didn’t plan any of that. I had the card for two years, wrote what I felt and sent it to you.’ I found out that Joy had just walked into the store, saw the card, grabbed it, wrote the message and mailed it to him. That is the kind of connection we have. It is a very wonderful bond. How can it be separated? What we have is so hard-wired. I am grateful that we think this way. In high school we swam together. We did the five hundred meters swim. We were in lane one and eight at the meet that qualified us for State, and we touched the wall at the same time when we finished. We were on the two sides of the pool and couldn’t see each other. To have that kind of equality and support was magical. When we went to college, they wouldn’t let us race together except in cross-country. In track I did 800 meters and 1,500 meters. Joy did the 3,000 meters and 5,000 meters. When we finally raced together, it was at the Bruce Jenner Classic in 1983. We prayed together at the starting line, and it was so wonderful that we were getting to share a race together. There is a photo of us that I have shared on Facebook, and we look like a mirror image. When you race with people, you are running in the same direction. If someone is ahead of you, they want you to catch up. If they are next to you, they are helping you move to your fastest speed and you are helping them. If they are behind you, they are cheering for you. It’s the way we think and we live. Sharing swimming with Joy, being in plays as kids and other activities was wonderful. And after college we had the ability to be together and that was a super gift.
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After your running career, you coached at Concordia University, were assistant women’s track coach at the University of Iowa, and cross-country coach at the University of North Texas. What were the main tenets of your coaching philosophy and what were the similarities and differences of motivating others versus yourself?
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I began as a neophyte runner in college and at that time was studying to become a swim coach. I was going in the direction of swim coaching and exercise research. When I was a new runner performing in track and cross country, I understood in the future I would be transferring that knowledge to others. That was wonderful because it allowed me to digest it and learn what I was doing to help myself and what I could hand to others. That is becoming a coach -facilitating others’ development. We are all born with capability. It is in every single person. When people unlock that capability, they are doing it, but we facilitate that discovery, fascination and curiosity and it is wonderful. So, when I coached, I first looked at what we could have had or done better. This isn’t a negative on my coaches. It is more the environment we had. When Willie Williams was gone, no one at the university allowed us any opportunity to spend time together and it took twelve years to finally have a reunion as grown adults who were able to celebrate Willie. It was a reunion that wasn’t even at the University of Arizona. It was in Las Vegas and was incredibly beautiful. I wanted to create a coaching environment like in a small town or village. Everyone on the team would find what it is they were lacking. Maybe they commuted and needed a place to take a nap and someone on the team had a place where they could relax. This would change a commuter to someone who was more connected. If a family member passed away, then we had a village to rally around the individual and family who mourned the loss and we were there for them. We helped runners who were injured to recover and didn’t take their scholarships away even if it took longer than a year. We watched as people studied, thrived and graduated and that was how I coached. That was my opportunity. The gift of that was that these amazing men and women were on the team, and they thrived and excelled. I volunteered at UCLA, coached at MiraCosta College and then coached at Concordia. After the Willie Williams situation, I couldn’t run there anymore and transferred to Kansas State. I had a stalker following me there. I didn’t find out until 2016 that he was a serial rapist killer that ended up in prison for killing women. He had targeted me, and I left the campus. I left everything, took a backpack, went to class, left the building on the other side and took a bus and left Kansas State. I ended up in Dallas, Texas where Robert Vaughn coached. I ended up having a wonderful environment to train with Francie Larrieu-Smith, Mary Knicely, Becky McClenny and hurdler Tammy Etienne. The Metroplex Striders trained there and so did the SMU men’s track team. It was a very neat group and a wonderful environment. It was all because of a detrimental situation and I had a new opportunity to go forward with performing, excelling, and thriving.
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1984 OLYMPIC TRIALS, OLYMPICS AND POST-OLYMPIC COMPETITIONS Since 1984 was an Olympic year, there was obviously a heightened feeling of importance amongst athletes. One important meet about two-and-a-half weeks before the Olympic Trials was the Athletics West Twilight Meet in Eugene, Oregon where you raced the 3,000 meters in 8:50.9 to finish four seconds behind Cindy Bremser and five seconds ahead of Brenda Webb. As your training was coming together and you were preparing for the Olympic Trials, how were you progressing on the pathway to being at your best at the Trials?
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In February I had a bike accident and four days later I had a car accident. I fell hard on the bike onto my tail bone and fell out of the car into traffic and a car missed my head by inches. I saw the car coming toward me and wanted to sit up, but I couldn’t move. That car went by and just missed me. I went to the hospital on a spine board, got out of the hospital. After that combination of accidents, I wasn’t focused on making the Olympic team. I looked each day at what was the smartest thing I could do that day and thought, if I did that, I would be okay. Every day that’s what I did. My first race was at the end of March at the Willie Williams Classic. I ran the 3,000 meters in 9:42. By the time I got to the Athletics West Twilight Meet, I was feeling better and performing well. I didn’t have any pressure on me as I just did the best and smartest I could each day. After the Twilight Meet, I knew I had two more weeks of training. Woo Hoo! It’s like when you look at a smorgasbord of food and are happy to have anything to eat. For me it was to run without injuries.
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In the Olympic Trials rounds, athletes want to advance while not overextending themselves. You were third in your heat in a modest time of 9:08.90 and second in your semifinal with a quick 8:52.53. Can you take us through the early rounds at the Olympic Trials since the top five plus other fast qualifiers advanced, did you feel strong and were you confident going into the final?
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| JH |
We were ready. There were three of us on our team and Robert Vaughn did an impressive job preparing us. We went into the Olympic Trials, there were flags up and I looked at it as a party and I was hosting the party. I wasn’t scared. Many people look at the competition as there will be three qualifiers and that fourth place and the rest are left out. It’s like facing a firing squad and three make it while the rest fail. That is a tremendous amount of pressure. That pressure creates tension. The results can eat at people and cause stress. If you don’t think that way, isn’t it great? You can go into the race and think I’m going to conquer this. I’m going to negative split. I swam for years negative splitting and wasn’t going to do anything different. I was going to run the most efficient way to race, and my outcome would be wonderful. And that is what happened.
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In the final, Mary Decker, who was coming off winning both the 1,500 meters and 3,000 meters the year before at the World Championships was a big favorite. She took off fast, had a big lead early and cruised in 8:34. Then there was a group you were running with including Cindy Bremser, Francie Larrieu-Smith and Cathy Branta who were in the mix for the final two Olympic team spots. With a couple laps to go, Francie and you moved away for the group before Francie faded and Cindy came up to nip you for second place. Do you remember what was going through your mind and how you were feeling as Francie and you took off and then you made the team as the top three are all winners?
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There are people I was running with who were training partners of mine, Francie Larrieu-Smith and Mary Knicely. We had workouts where we were running together and working on assorted styles of pace and strategy. Francie and I were very good at exchanging the lead. Mary was younger and tended to tuck in. That happened in training and racing. Going into the Trials, it felt like there were three of us together who had that mindset of a team. I can’t answer for them, but that’s how I looked at it. Having Francie right there during the race was neat. I loved it. I thought it was great and wonderful. When we got to that last lap, I felt terrific and knew we were prepared. It was tremendous finishing strong. During a race, runners will drift out. I don’t kn0w if we were in lane four, but Cindy kept drifting out a lot. Since I was so close to her, that meant I had to continue drifting out. Since three of us made the Olympic team, I couldn’t care less. I don’t turn around and look because that is not part of my style. I’m focusing on accelerating and running through the finish line.
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How exciting was it to make the Olympic team and know you were heading to the Olympics?
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I had a big PR at the Trials, and I knew I still had six weeks to train. That was so amazing and so awesome. I ran around the track and embraced the moment when I made the Olympic team because of everything I had gone through.
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Six weeks later at the Olympics you had to get through two rounds to make the final and you did after racing with runners like Brigitte Kraus and Wendy Sly. After the six weeks of training and the two rounds, how did you feel as you prepared for the final?
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| JH |
If you have done workouts where you can predict what you will do in a race, then this will make perfect sense. Before the Trials, the pace we were racing for was 8:42. I ran 8:41.3. At the Olympics, my training indicated I was ready to run 8:36.
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In the Olympic Final you looked smooth before getting tangled with Aurora Cunha of Portugal with four laps to go when you were in fifth place and went down. You tried to catch up but ended up in eighth place at 8:51.53. Can you take us through the race, how you were feeling before the fall and any other thoughts?
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In the race, I was running at 8:36 pace. So, I was on my planned pace. I knew I was going to medal because so many runners went out too hard and it was hot. And I always ran a negative split. In the first six seconds of the race, I settled in and gradually moved up through the field. I knew I was racing well and smart. I knew I was going to win a medal. Then a surprise happened with a mile to go. I didn’t realize what had happened except that someone drifted back, and I stepped aside and back to give her room. I stepped out to give her room because I didn’t mind. Then the person cut out in front of me, and my foot collided with her foot. My foot then landed on her foot. That is an unstable surface and the runner in the back is usually the one that falls and hits the track. I didn’t know I was falling. I sensed somebody was going down. Because of how I’m wired, I was sad for that person.
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It is a shame that there were multiple falls and a runner with heat exhaustion in that final. Somehow you were able to get up and finish, but it must have been a disappointment that you weren’t able to do what you were capable of and wired to do that day.
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This recollection may surprise you. When I hit the ground, I hit my solar plexus and I couldn’t breathe. The only thing I thought of was getting up and continuing, but I couldn’t breathe. I started running and for what felt like thirty seconds I felt like I was going to pass out or not be able to breathe. But I wasn’t going to quit. I saw my friends up ahead and was thinking, ‘Catch up with them.’ I was thinking of them as my friends, and I wanted to catch up with them. The adrenaline made my lap very fast. Even with the fall, it was around seventy seconds which was too fast for me. I was able to stay in the race for a bit, but my last lap was at least seventy-five seconds. I ran 8:51 and finished eighth, but I did the best I could that day because of the circumstances. It’s life and it gave me the opportunity to tell kids about a way of looking at life that allows them to do their best and be okay with what happens. Champions are made by approach. When we look at first, second, third, fourth and fifth place, those are outcome goals. When we focus on performance tasks or goals, we find out how well we can do for ourselves. And when we do that, we become a champion within ourselves. We can do that in anything in life even when we have adversity.
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After the Olympics, you had the opportunity to race in Europe. You and Cindy Bremser raced 3,000 meters at Weltklasse in Zurich with her finishing second and you in fourth. Both of you raced 3,000 meters in Koblenz, Germany with you reversing the finish on Cindy as you were third and she was fourth. Then you raced 5,000 meters in Paris and earned the Bronze Medal in a 15:39.08 personal best. What was it like racing in Europe with the excited and knowledgeable fans in packed stadiums?
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| JH |
We had raced in Europe prior to 1984 and being over there for the European circuit is wonderful because European fans appreciate track and field at so much higher a level than we do in the States. There is a polish and an intimacy of connection with the spectators. In Koblenz there are families and picnics in the infield and around the track. We are racing and it is a small, intimate venue. At the other end of the spectrum is Zurich, which is a full stadium of people yelling and it gives the athletes a Super Bowl feeling. It was wonderful and a terrific feeling to race with people and be part of a camaraderie in all events. One of the beautiful parts of racing middle distances is, after you are done with your race, you can cheer for other people. In the 10k or marathon, that may not be the case. But, when you are racing on a track, you can cheer for both field and track athletes. It’s a family. That is what the European circuit is like. You are travelling with people who are like family. You are not only excelling but encouraging everyone around you.
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At the European meets, when you earned a medal were there usually medal ceremonies on a podium or was it a quiet presentation away from the spectators?
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| JH |
Because I didn’t emphasize that part, I don’t remember. When you sit up in the stands with friends and warm up or cool down with them, it’s such a cool thing and that is where I found my joy. So, that’s where my memories are, and I still have them as friends to this day.
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COLLEGIATE RACING You mentioned Coach Dave Murray getting you started running and some starts and stops in your early running. What were some highlights of early collegiate races either in dual meets, invitationals or relay meets?
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| JH |
My very first race was an all comers meet the second semester of my sophomore year. I was nineteen years old. I entered the mile. I thought I could run 5:25 and that is what I predicted. I crossed the finish line in 5:25. That was my first taste of racing. Every race that season, I predicted the time I was going to run and did so. That is what stood out for me and was very cool. That was due to my swimming background. The races were 800 meters and 1,500 meters. The workouts were geared for those distances, and I had a lot of injuries. I could train three to four days a week and then the other three or four days I was trying to heal. Joy and I were both very injury prone in the beginning. We had these very thick files the athletic trainer would take out. They would tell us that we were the most amazing collection of maladies they were working on. We were more like China dolls than Gumby. That is what I remember from my first season. Joy had started in cross country her freshman year as she switched over from swimming then. She had more endurance than me. She was running the 3,000 and 5,000 meters. I’m sure she would have rather run the 800 and 1,500 meters instead. Those races are way more fun, and you get done sooner. Chris Murray became our women’s track coach, and he was very committed to scoring team points. So, he raced us a lot. I raced in many events in each meet, and I would have liked to not run that many. I encourage athletes to not race so much
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Racing at conference meets is always exciting as you race as an individual while helping your team succeed. What do you recall from your two Western Collegiate Athletic Association individual cross-country wins and your victory at the WCAA 3,000-meter championship in 1980 and were they close races?
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| JH |
We had a cool team. It was magical. If you think of a washcloth and you were going to cover us with it, that is how we thought in cross country. We had an amazing group. Dave Murray coached the men and women. We had a whole team, not just the top six or top seven runners. There were so many magical or wonderful people on this team. Training together was very neat. That is what I noticed. Joy and I were walk-ons at Arizona and many of the other top runners were recruited and were scholarship athletes. Joy and I each had academic scholarships. Right before the fall semester of our senior year, we talked to Dave and asked, ‘We’re doing very well now. Do you think we could have a full ride?’ He gave it to us, but we had to ask for it. What I learned as a coach was to reward people when they earn it. Don’t make them have to come into your office and ask.
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| GCR: |
Let’s go back a few years to 1979, which was pre-NCAA for women, and Joy and you raced the 1979 AIAW Cross Country Championships Tallahassee, Florida. You were fourteenth in 17:11.6 and Joy was fifteenth in 17:13.4 as you both made first team All-America. Also, your team, including Marjorie Kaput, Stacy Crystal and Teresa Wierson finished fifth. How cool was it to both be All-Americans and for your team to finish so strongly?
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| JH |
That was terrific. Once we got over the facts that there were alligators, fire ants, water moccasins and all these other dangerous creatures out there on the golf course, then we were fine. You understand what I’m saying because you live in Florida. In Arizona, we have rattlesnakes that warn you. The Florida animals don’t. That stood out for us. In Tallahassee, there were some 800-meter runners on the cross-country team that excelled there. It was wonderful.
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| GCR: |
The following year at the 1980 AIAW Cross Country Championships in Seattle, Washington 5,000 it was a race of outstanding athletes as Julie Shea won in 16:48.1, followed by Betty Jo Springs in 16:54.8, you in 16:56.0, Judi St. Hillaire in 17:05.4, Mary Shea in 17:10.1 and Regina Joyce 17:10.1 to round out a very strong top six. Plus, your team finished second as Marjorie Kaput, Anthea James, Stacy Crystal and Eliza Carney rounded out your top five runners. What was it like running with such great performers and your team finishing in runner up position?
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| JH |
We lived in the desert and got to go up to a green, forested area which was a beautiful place to run. There was incredibly beautiful weather and a nice scenic course. I think it was on Tyee Golf Course. It was a challenging course compared to the previous year at Tallahassee which wasn’t as hilly. In Seattle we had a very tough hill climbing group and it showed. We performed well together. It was a thrill to run strong together as a team.
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The next spring at the 1981 AIAW Track and Field Championships in Austin, Texas over 3,000 meters you raced with Regina Joyce who won in 9:00.2 to your clocking of 9:09.5. Were you close and then she had a big kick?
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| JH |
I totally recall that race. Picture racing in Texas and expectations that it would be hot and dry. That is exactly what I was prepared for. Instead, a hurricane had come through and we had a ton of water on the track. Unfortunately, I wear contact lenses. Regina took the lead immediately and I ran behind her getting splashed in the face the whole way. My contacts were splashed on, and I couldn’t see. I had trained in the dry and hot desert while she had trained in the cool and wet northwest, so that was the situation. That was pretty much the race. Regina ran beautifully and I’m proud of her because she is a friend of mine. That race reminds me of when I went to the Friendship Games in Taiwan around that time and the conditions were similar. Taiwan had experienced a typhoon and the track was very wet, so I was squinting the whole time to see and not lose my contacts.
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| GCR: |
Three weeks later were the 1981 TAC/Mobil Championships in Sacramento, California and you tangled with Brenda Webb for the 3,000 meters and she prevailed 9:04.54 to 9:07.57. Were racing conditions dry and hot in Sacramento?
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| JH |
It was hot - super hot. Sacramento was a scorcher. If you could think about being in a skillet and racing, that is what it was like. It was incredibly hot. The track absorbed heat and the race was survival by attrition. At that point, I was no longer running for the University of Arizona. Brenda Webb and I were teammates with Athletics West, so it felt just like that – teammates racing each other.
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| GCR: |
When the AIAW was fading and the NCAA was adding women’s sports, you raced the 1981 NCAA Cross Country Championships at Wichita State as Betty Jo Springs won in 16:19.0 and a tight pack of five followed - Leann Warren of Oregon at 16:25.3, Aileen O’Connor of Virginia at 16:27.7, Kelly Cathey of Oklahoma at 16:27.9, Lesley Walsh of Virginia at 16:27.9 and you at 16:29.6. How did that race develop and what was the difference between taking the win and being at the back of the lead pack?
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| JH |
I was in the lead in this race, and I hit the wall with a hundred meters to go. I faded and the outcome was sixth place.
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| GCR: |
Five days later was the 1981 TAC Cross Country Championships in Burbank, California and it was a super strong field. There was Mary Decker Julie Brown, Betty Jo Springs, Aileen O’Connor and others. There was a group of five or six of you in the lead pack until Julie Brown took off. What do you recall of that race, just five days after fading at the NCAAs, when you made a move at the end and almost caught Julie Brown for the win as you both were timed in 15:49?
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| JH |
At the NCAA Championships, my team wasn’t at the top of its game. We had been performing well and were flat. But that wasn’t our norm which occurred for me when I went to Burbank. The secret about Burbank that people didn’t know was that I had been staying with friends in Houston and went to the wrong airport for my flight. So, I missed the flight the day before the race. That meant I wasn’t going to be able to preview the course. When I arrived, I only had enough time to get there, do a warmup and toe the line. I didn’t know the course where I was running. By the time I realized where the finish line was, I had some stuff left. That’s when I had a kick and almost caught Julie. Though we had the same time, she was ahead of me. I was still elated to be able to come into a race, not worry about it, tell myself ‘What can I do?’ and then do it. That was wonderful and qualified us to go to the World Cross Country Championships in Rome.
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OTHER COMPETITIONS ON THE NATIONAL AND WORLD STAGE In 1981 you raced against Russia in St. Petersburg, Russia over 3,000 meters as two Russians were in the 8:30s, you were third in 9:20.51 and Brenda Webb was fourth in 9:28.32. What were highlights of your adventure into Russia and that race?
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| JH |
We were the first U.S. team in the Soviet Union after the 1980 Olympic boycott, so this was a huge deal. We were two different countries with two different governments, and it was supposedly a showdown. We were in the Hotel Leningrad as it was still the Soviet Union, not Russia. The food wasn’t too good. We had microwaved eggs that were partially cooked and part raw. They gave us sealed water. I had a boiler and would pour the water into it and boil it before I would drink it. Every bottle was normal until the night before the race. I boiled it and it turned black. I ran to the coaches’ room and told them our water was contaminated. We couldn’t drink it and we were all dehydrated the next day. If we drank the water, I expect there would have been diarrhea, but we didn’t drink it. It was very hot, we were dehydrated, and that is what stood out from that dual meet. I totally hurt and it was a painful race. I don’t recommend running any race when dehydrated.
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Then you raced at the World University Games in Bucharest, Romania at 3,000 meters as three eastern Europeans from Yugoslavia, Russia and Romania plus Ruth Smeeth of Great Britain all ran sub-9:00 and you were fifth in 9:08.22. How exciting was that competition and did you do much sightseeing?
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| JH |
I was new and had only been running for three years, so I was okay with where I finished. I was happy to be over there in Europe. The eastern block races were bookends of the trip with other races in between. Since we were in an eastern block country again, the food wasn’t that great. I didn’t recognize the meat that was in this orange sauce. It had ribs that weren’t designed like anything I’d ever eaten. So, I wasn’t sure what I was eating. They were gracious, but they gave us green, rock-hard peaches. When I got out of the athletes’ village, which was a military base with machine guns, barbed wire, Uzis, and guard dogs, there were people picketing. I was curious as to why and it was because they were starving. We were eating their food. This was back when Ion Iliescu was the Romanian leader. It was eye-opening for me to see beyond just the track meet. They lost my ticket, and I didn’t go back to the U.S. with the track team. I went to the airport with the team and, when I couldn’t board, I went back. I stayed there, which was a luxury for me. I was the only person up on the sixth floor. There was an empty floor below me and then athletes on the first four floors. There were athletes from many sports as the World University Games wasn’t only track and field. I ended up cheering as a supporter for the swim team. Since I was alone, the Romanian police didn’t tail me, and I had the freedom to walk around. It was lovely to go into restaurants, see folk dancing and have the wonderful experience of being away from the military base.
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| GCR: |
Let’s go forward a few months to the 1982 IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Rome, Italy. It is such a team event as athletes vie to help their team finish in the top three and in the medals. The USSR won with forty-four team points followed by Italy with fifty-seven and England’s score of sixty-seven just nipping the USA’s seventy points for third place. Only the top four score and, for the USA, those were Jan Merrill in tenth place at 14:59.5, Marty Cooksey in 17th at 15:07.9, Aileen O’Connor in 20th at 15:10.4 and Brenda Webb in 23rd at 15:18.0 with you a few seconds behind her in 27th at 15:23.7. What was it like being part of that team racing against other countries and trying to bring together great performances so you could do something special together?
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| JH |
You are going to hear some nuggets of information that aren’t out there. I had broken the World Record for the indoor two-mile, so I was in incredibly great shape. I was planning on going over to Italy with the men’s team ahead of the women, but the coaches had the wrong tickets. We couldn’t leave and were in New York waiting for the women to arrive the next day. I went out on a training run with Herb Lindsay, Al Salazar, Pat Porter and this whole group of guys for around a ten-mile run. We ran from LaGuardia Airport and ended up in this area where we had no business being. We were wearing flashy tights. It was March and very cold. People were heating themselves with fires in trash cans. They saw us coming toward their intersection and weren’t happy to see us. They were shouting and started chasing us. It was like an episode of ‘The Mod Squad.’ I had Herb Lindsay and Al Salazar on either side of me lifting me. I was barely touching the ground as I was sprinting. They almost caught us. Can you imagine not making it to the World Cross Country Championships? We survived and had a nice adrenaline rush before we made it to Rome. The night before the race, we had a Nike-sponsored dinner. I asked the waiter what he recommended. I ate it and ended up getting severe food poisoning. I tried to warm up before the race. I got three hundred meters into the warmup and vomited. I wasn’t planning on racing since I couldn’t make it through the warmup. Each team lined up in single file in a horse racing stall. Since Julie Brown decided not to race, I would have been the first runner for our team. But I had a one hundred-and-one degree temperature and was vomiting. Because I wasn’t planning on racing, I was going to stay in the back behind my teammates. When I told the coach I wasn’t going to race, he said, ‘Then you are going to get on the plane and go back to the U.S.’ I didn’t want to go on a plane feeling like I did. Molly Salazar had my spikes, and I had her throw them to me. I was the last person in our chute, put on my spikes and raced my guts out. It was horrible. It was the hardest race I ever did. The last one hundred meters I expelled like Julie Moss in that iconic Ironman finishing stretch. There was nothing left. When I was finished, Molly Salazar was trying to help me get past the band, the railing, and the crowd. I kept vomiting. I counted that I vomited thirteen times, was very sick and ended up losing ten pounds. The virus and food poisoning hampered my performance the rest of the season. The moral of that story is simple – don’t get food poisoning.
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Sticking with the European racing theme, in 1983 you raced the USA vs Northern Europe in Stockholm, Sweden over 3,000 meters with Dorthe Rasmussen of Denmark winning in 8:59.2, Julie Brown in second in 9:00.20, Eva Ernstrom of Sweden third in 9:00.75, followed by you at 9:10.81 and fellow American, Kathryn Hayes, at 9:12.11. Are there any strong memories from that race and was it part of a racing swing through Scandinavia?
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| JH |
Athletes in Action was racing in Scandinavia, and, because of my Scandinavian background, I had an opportunity to branch off from the big races where I ran for Athletics West, and race smaller events for Athletes in Action. That was neat to be with Athletes in Action to race and encourage others in those smaller meets. I ran both large meets and smaller meets to connect with my roots.
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After racing primarily at the 3,000-meter distance, the year after the Olympics you raced 5,000 meters at the 1985 TAC/USA Championships in Indianapolis, Indiana and finished fifth in a tight group as the top six of Suzanne Girard Eberle, Jan Merrill, Annie Schweitzer, Christine McMiken, you and Jill Holiday finished from 15:57 to 16:02. What was the thought process of moving up to a longer distance and what were your takeaways?
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| JH |
I wasn’t going to race in the 1984 cross country season but did so at the National Championships as a favor to Bob Sevene, who is a wonderful coach and person. I ended up tearing up my foot. There had been a lot of water runoff and the ground had fractures coming down the hill toward the last one hundred meters to the finish. My foot wedged in one of those fissures and I ripped the heck out of my foot and ankle. When I crossed the finish line, I knew that it was damaged. I couldn’t run. I crossed the finish line and that was it. I later found out there was a fracture that had broken my foot. Because I didn’t know right away I had a fracture, I healed up the ligaments and tendons, but the fracture wasn’t healed. When I got to Nationals, I wasn’t at full strength. That was too bad because I qualified for the World Cross Country Championships in Portugal. I wasn’t training for cross country but had a tremendous amount of strength under my belt and was looking forward to the track season. So, that was a disappointment. I wasn’t bitter about it but lost the opportunity to train strongly for the 1985 season for myselfthough I ran respectable at the 1985 Nationals.
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ROAD RACING While you were focused on track racing, you still entered some road races and one that was very important for women was the L’Eggs Mini-Marathon 10k in New York City. You ran it as a novice in 1979 in 36:19 and stepped it up the next year. In 1980, Grete Waitz, Patti Catalano and Joan Samuelson were the top three, but you were in a group of eight runners that finished with seventeen seconds including Lorraine Moller, Carol McLatchie, Judi St. Hillaire, Betty Jo Springs Geiger, Joyce Smith, and Mary Shea as you finished a strong ninth. What was it like on the roads in New York City with big crowds cheering the women and to be with this great pack of top-notch fellow runners?
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| JH |
Fred Lebow, with the New York Road Runners, is someone we considered a friend, so it was terrific to be doing both of those races. The first year, Joy and I were part of Warren Street. Tracy Frankel had this group where Joy and I ran and won the sister division. That was terrific racing for the first time in a women’s race. The following year I knew Fred, knew the course, went back and it was a wonderful experience to be out there with the immense talent I raced with. They were wonderful people and there was a sense of encouragement on that course with all women.
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To kick off 1981, on January 4th there was the Runner’s World Invitational 8k in Los Altos, California. Grete Waitz was off the front in another zip code, winning in 25:21.4. You were racing with Regina Joyce and Francie Larrieu-Smith for third and prevailed by nine seconds over Regina and sixteen seconds over Francie. Did the three of you run together for a long way before you separated from them?
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| JH |
Road races were a new experience for me. It was funny that my name was spelled wrong, ‘Hanson,’ so no one knew it was me. After my performance in that early January race, I was extended an invitation to race 3,000 meters indoors at the Cow Palace. I loved racing indoors. Grete was in that race too and it was thrilling to run with her as I set the collegiate record for 3,000 meters. That race on the roads was hauling! I was holding on for dear life and was very uncomfortable going at the speed we were for that distance. I was still training only about twenty-eight miles a week at that point. I was focused on speed and quality and not distance. I did get up to as high as forty-eight miles a week at the end of college when I was running for Robert Vaughn. I was not what would be considered a high mileage runner ever.
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After running that World Record indoor two-mile that we discussed earlier, a couple of weeks later you raced what I would consider to be way out of your comfort zone at the Tucson Sun Run 15k where you won in 51:35, with Francie Larrieu-Smith second in fifty-two minutes flat. What was it like running and racing 15k, or 9.3 miles, when you weren’t used to anything approaching that distance?
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| JH |
If I am going to line up on a starting line, I’m going to do the best I can and run as intelligently as possible. I am going to conquer the course. Francie and I weren’t teammates yet. I didn’t know many runners in that race, so I looked at them as friends I hadn’t met yet. The course was hilly. Dave Murray did have us run far at times. I didn’t do long runs often, but I was tough. We ran in hot conditions and hills and were used to that. At that point, the Sun Run was my farthest race. It felt long. It hurt. I didn’t train for it but all those years of swimming and the cardiovascular effect on my heart allowed me to race well.
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| GCR: |
You mentioned running intelligently, which makes me think of something you touched on briefly that is partially the opposite. In early April of 1982 you went to the Texas Relays and placed third in 16:02.6 behind Francie Larrieu Smith and Kellie Archuletta who both ran in the 15:51s. Then you ran the Nike Grand Prix 10k in Long Beach, California the next morning strongly as Maggie Kraft Keyes won in 33:01, followed by Judi St Hilaire in 33:26 and you close behind in 33:36. It’s tough enough if races are at the same location, so what was the thought process behind racing two days in a row in Texas and California?
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| JH |
I had had food poisoning and lost ten pounds after World Cross Country and wasn’t all the way back. At the time that weekend I didn’t realize what I was doing. The Texas Relays were running behind schedule and late. We raced the 5,000 meters after midnight. The next morning was the flight to Long Beach and the race was a team 10k. The race was held at the Long Beach Grand Prix. People were drinking and women were scantily dressed at the venue, and we were hooted and hollered at the entire way. It was like they were construction workers out there. They were tormenting the women as we ran by. We had that experience the entire 10k. The road had so much oil on it and was incredibly slippery. I had a lot of blisters from the friction on that course. If I had not been scheduled to run both a race the night before and that day that would have been preferable. That was too much racing. In hindsight, years later, what I understand is that we were expendable so we could be raced to death, and it didn’t matter. We did end up winning as a team, though we didn’t have a voice. Athletics West set up the schedule of what races we would run. But, if you want your athletes to excel as a team, you might consult with them instead of throwing them into those kinds of situations. My gift from that is I was able in the future to be a more effective coach because of what I encountered.
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We’ve discussed several road races where you were one of the top runners but didn’t bring home the victory. At the 1983 Dallas Dash for the Disabled 10k right before Halloween you did take the win in 34:38. I’m not sure how strong the field was, but was it exciting to cross the line first?
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| JH |
I lived in Dallas, and it was a local race, so I knew a lot of people there. I’m sure I was thanking race officials as I turned corners. That was my style. It was a road race though and, in order of favorite venues, it wasn’t at the top. The indoor races, European circuit and cross country were ahead of road racing since it was on pavement. If we had trail racing, I think I would have loved that, but we didn’t have it back then. It was fun – everything was fun. Everything we got to do was a blast and I enjoyed it.
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TRAINING Since you had a swimming background, what were similarities and differences between swimming and running training as to time of long sessions, strength intervals and speed work, especially since athletes can spend more time in the pool due to less stress on the legs?
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| JH |
First, before we go there, realize that it was a hair dryer that got me into running. I had to swim an early morning session and afternoon workout and dry my hair twice. To get my run done in an hour or less and only have to dry my hair once was why I ran track. It was my hair dryer! The difference in college was also that we were at a different pool than the men’s team and had to go back and forth twice a day from school to the pool. We were isolated in a pool that wasn’t great with a poor filtration system. We had hand-made swimsuits, not Speedos, and were getting chafed. We were bleeding under the arms from the chafing of the old, weird swimsuits. You can imagine the incentive to run track instead. It crushed me because I loved swimming and would like to have stayed in that sport. But the circumstances at the University of Arizona changed that. Though, if somebody came up to me when I was eighteen years old and told me I would make an Olympic team in track and field, I would have thought they were nuts. I didn’t like running. I loved swimming. But I learned to love running. What allowed me to learn to love running was because I wasn’t doing high mileage. I also did get into the pool in the deep end. We didn’t have aqua joggers, so I would run an hour in the pool without a flotation device for conditioning to offset injuries. That was helpful. The ‘killer dillers’ that Dave Murray had us do were whistle drills. We did them in every park and they were memorable. The men and women ran together. We always had someone with whom we could sprint. We did them in cross country season and in the early track season where we would do them and then go to the track to finish.
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What were your favorite workouts on the track for strength and speed versus cross country workouts?
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| JH |
Coach Murray had controlled runs that we would do. They were a strong pace for challenging distances. I remember on the track coach having us doing twenty times two hundred meters with a diagonal jog. That was a challenging workout. The first track we had was in the football stadium and went from eight lanes down to four lanes. If you weren’t paying attention and were in lane five inside in a dark area you would hit the wall because you couldn’t see. The shift to the brand-new international caliber track was wonderful. And there was a bakery nearby so we could smell the bread and that stood out.
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You mentioned both Willie Williams and Dave Murray as coaches. What were their responsibilities in your training and racing?
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| JH |
Willie Williams was the men’s track coach. And I was a female who went in his office initially and asked him to teach me how to run. He had these beautiful, fancy Italian shoes and was impeccably dressed. He took off his very nice jacket, walked me out into McHale center and showed me how to sprint. He taught me how to run. I wasn’t on his team, but he did that for me. He was an incredible person who inspired me when I later began coaching. Kathy Givens Jackson, who had gone to Colorado to coach, Dave Murray, Robert Vaughn and Willie Williams were my motivation to coach. Dave Murray was a Marine, designed great workouts and worked us hard. He was a tough kind of guy coaching us.
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After your college eligibility ended, what did Robert Vaughn and Doris Brown do to help you progress?
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| JH |
When I landed with Robert Vaughn, he was a proponent of the Arthur Lydiard coaching method and that was perfect for me because it allowed me to run lower mileage. Doris Brown was the Olympic coach. My workouts were set up through Robert Vaughn, but Doris helped with the way she looked at racing. Brooks Johnson was also there, and he timed my 800-meter time trial when I ran 2:04 in a workout. That was a PR because I didn’t race 800 meters often and it was neat to run it in a time trial. I know that was accurate because he was the Stanford coach, and he wasn’t going to shorten the distance. That was very cool and wonderful to have that connection with these coaches.
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WRAPUP AND FINAL THOUGHTS Are there any races we haven’t discussed on the track, grass or roads that stand out?
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| JH |
When I broke the AIAW 3,000-meter record it was the only time I ran the 3,000 meters indoors as a collegiate athlete. That was very neat to discover that I liked running indoors. A second memory is there was a race at the Jesse Owens Classic outdoors and there was a woman from Minnesota I had met when their group came out west to train. Her name was Rocky Racette and was someone who had that style of racing with me rather than competing against me and I love that. We were able to run side by side, take turns leading and share the lead. It is unique to find people like that. Francie Larrieu Smith was like that as a training partner and Rocky was like that. Rocky and I exchanged the lead and were talking to each other during the race. The encouragement we had for each other was great and we ended up close to each other. That feeling of camaraderie in racing was incredibly memorable for me. She is the one who died at age twenty-one. She was a beautiful human being. Another memory is there is a Sports Illustrated photo of Racing Quest Club with Joy and I side-by-side. Marjorie Kaput is there. Kathy Givens-Jackson is in the lead. Kellie Archuletta is up there, and that cross-country race is also very memorable. The group of us was so strong that we finished very well. That was early in my running and was terrific. I think that’s when Joy and I became All-Americans as we ran in the muck, the quagmire of mud. We were racing and I saw this woman ahead of me who seemed older. She would step down into the mud, step back up, push the flags aside and run up on the solid ground. I matched her and mimicked her. I didn’t know that was Doris Brown Heritage who ended up being my coach for the 1984 Olympics. She was a neat woman and wonderful mentor. It was cool to see someone doing that and to follow her as what she was doing was brilliant. People were losing their shoes in the mud – that’s how sticky it was.
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After the 1984 season, can you relate about continuing to train for the 1988 Olympics with factors such as school, injuries, lack of financial backing and working with other athletes in San Diego through a nonprofit group as you faced challenges in those years?
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| JH |
I lived in Los Angeles, was volunteer coaching at UCLA, working outpatient physical therapy and planning to get my degree. But the smog and a spot on my lung convinced me to move out to San Diego. The doctor told me that, if I didn’t move out of Los Angeles, it could become lung cancer, so I moved south. I wanted to get my degree, but that aim was stalled. When I went to San Diego, I ended up getting my sports massage license in 1986. In 1988 I was in very good shape and was excited because I was prepared to race very well. I was training for the Olympics and sent packets out to various companies looking for sponsorship. Unlike when I ran for Athletics West in 1984, leading up to the Seoul Olympics there weren’t as many opportunities for athletes. I only had one interview, which was with a financial planning group. They were willing to sponsor me and, when I suggested the idea of my setting up a non-profit to help with other struggling athletes for the Olympics and then coming back to be the director after the Olympics, they said ‘yes.’ Unbeknownst to me, they hadn’t filed to be a 501(c)(3) corporation and it was March 31st. Instead of being part of a scam, the next day on April first I did the filing. I stopped training for the Olympic Games and started helping other athletes with the nonprofit. A bank donated some funds. The gas company donated utilities and volunteers. Ma Bell did the same with phone services. I had a wonderful experience helping athletes. I had no salary. The amount I was given for sponsorship for me was used to help thirteen athletes. There was coverage in the media. When I stopped training that became news, and the Los Angeles Times wrote an article. A gentleman called me in September to be a case study for a sports psychology class. He walked in, it was love at first sight and we ended up getting married two years later. That was very cool.
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You raced strong triathlons in the early 1990s including winning your age group at the 1990 ITU Triathlon World Championships and fourth amongst Elite women in at the 1991 Vancouver ITU World Cup. Did you enjoy the variety of training in the three triathlon disciplines and were there mitigating factors as to your relatively short stint in the sport?
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| JH |
After the 1988 Olympics, I was in very good shape for track season. I swam some and had a bike I rode for cross training. I was continuing training and by 1990 was just doing cross training with triathlon in Seattle. I was cross training for track, but raced a triathlon in Seattle and broke the course record. I qualified for the amateur nationals. I ended up going to Hammond, Indiana and won the Nationals. I had a trust account set up for track but didn’t realize that the executive directors for Tri-Fed and TAC were not seeing eye to eye. Ollan Cassell harmed some athletes with the way he power served. In my case, I won three hundred dollars in a triathlon. That was nothing in track and field as I earned much more there. I was hoping to put the money in my trust account, and he prevented it. He was trying to force Mark Sisson to start trust accounts with five-hundred-dollar startup costs. His plan was for it to go into a pool with one-third extracted by Ollan and TAC since running was one-third of triathlon. Mark Sisson didn’t go for that, and the outcome was that I wasn’t able to put the three hundred dollars into my trust account and I was banned from international track and field by Ollan Cassell. Since that door was slammed and my twin sister was doing triathlons, I decided I would love to do that. I went into the sprint division and raced the Danskin Series. That is how I joined professional triathlon. I didn’t race initially as a pro since I was at amateur nationals. But he called me a pro. Who knew? Ollan Cassell paved the way for me.
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You mentioned that you raced as long as a half Ironman triathlon. How did that go since you were out there for around five hours?
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| JH |
Joy and I were invited by Centaur to Sweden for a half Ironman triathlon and it was going to be a wrap up of my career and her career and we planned to retire afterward. We ended up racing this half Ironman and we were stride for stride the whole way. On the swim potion, the water was very cold. There were cowbells ringing the entire way on the bike and run and beautiful scenery. We finished together and broke the course record. It was very neat, a beautiful course and a wonderful experience.
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| GCR: |
Could there have been a better ending for both of your competitive careers than to finish how you just described at that half Ironman triathlon?
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| JH |
No, it was wonderful. As I have mentioned, a lot of the language used is ‘to compete against’ other athletes. You have never seen runners go in opposite directions. We go in the same direction and are racing with each other. No one ever competes against each other - they race with each other. We are going in the same direction and, when we truly think about it, everyone’s goal is to perform their best.
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| GCR: |
We discussed many of your races and some of your fellow performers. From your many years of racing, who were some of your favorite fellow performers when you lined up due to their ability to give you a strong race and for you to bring out the best in each other?
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| JH |
I had hoped to become friends with Mary Decker Slaney. I wanted it, but never had that chance. She never opened that door. There were others such as Judi St. Hillaire, Maggie Keyes, Cathy Mills, Kathy Gibbons, Francie Larrieu-Smith, Mary Knicely, Regina Joyce, Lynn Williams, Monica Joyce, Marjorie Kaput, Kathy Mintie and Betty Jo Springs. What is interesting about Betty Jo Springs is that I didn’t get to know her very well because we lived on two opposite ends of the country. It would have been nice. I did know Julie Shea and she was a sweetheart. I didn’t know her sister, Mary, as well. Doriane Lambelet McClive was a good friend and we ended up roommates in Los Angeles before I got the spot on my lung and moved. It was an amazing group. There were also people at other events who were my friends, and we could cheer for athletes in all disciplines – throwers, sprinters, jumpers.
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| GCR: |
After breaking the world record in 1982, I read that you were offered a modeling contract by Eileen Ford, which would have covered much of your training expenses, but Nike would’ve considered it a breach of contract so you could not accept it. What is the story behind that or contractual power they had since today athletes have multiple sponsors?
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| JH |
Keep in mind that for Gabrielle Reece, the volleyball player, they allowed her to have a modeling contract and they got a ton of exposure. I thought, ‘Who wouldn’t love that?’ The speedskater, Beth Heiden, Jamie Kurlander and I were brought out to Mademoiselle Magazine for a photo shoot and that’s when I was approached to model. I had an untimely brown recluse spider bite on my forehead, and it was raw because I happened about five days earlier. And I had a very bad headache. No one could tell in the photos because the photographer moved my hair so the wound wasn’t noticeable. The photo shoot went very well, and they offered the modeling gig. So, I called Nike. I had an exclusive contract we had signed with Nike, and they wouldn’t let me model. Back then I didn’t realize that it probably was to keep Mary Decker Slaney highly visible and I’m pretty sure that was their strategy for Athletics West. There isn’t any bitterness. That’s how their marketing was. They had a storyboard, they created their story and stuck with it. The story of Mary Decker Slaney was the only story they could tell, and they weren’t prepared for anything beyond that story. In England, they showed many different facets of the Olympic race and the performers and there was a different feel versus the U.S version of that story.
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| GCR: |
You have had some health and fitness challenges since being attacked by a dog. What is your current fitness routine and some of your goals for the future in terms of staying fit, working with the running community, your professional career, charitable work and potential new adventures?
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| JH |
I went to a family’s home – I didn’t know them - because one of my best friends was visiting them from Montana for two weeks and training in Tucson. The dog grabbed my face and shook me as I was sitting there petting it. The dog ripped my face and threw me. I had a head injury and had trauma which took a while to recover. My injuries were diagnosed as unilateral vestibular ocular loss and cognatic neck issues. What that means is I had balance issues and vertigo, I would get nauseous and migraine headaches. Prior to that, I was running and cycling a tremendous amount and was in great shape. Coming back from that attack, I was able to hike. My son and I hiked in the Grand Canyon. My right foot kept making me fall to the right and my left foot would save me. When I was able to get physical therapy, they found out what I had was neurological and that saved my life. Now I can hike better. I am going to start biking again. I tried it and was anxious to figure out why I could turn to the left easily and couldn’t turn to the right and that physical therapy group identified the issue. The vestibular ocular loss on my right side was the challenge on the bike. When I get back into biking, it will be on safe, mountain bike courses that aren’t complicated. I love kayaking. I used to volunteer with horses and kids prior to the dog attack. I am getting back into getting around horses again which is very nice. I also volunteer with packaging food for kids that is transported via mission work to kids and schools in countries where people are starving. We do that on Friday evenings. It’s called ‘Feed the Serving Children.’ If I can find a horse stable nearby, I would love to volunteer again as I haven’t done that since the pandemic. I’m looking forward to that.
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| GCR: |
Though you started as a swimmer before switching to running rather late, what advice would you give parents to encourage their children to run and youngsters who are in the initial stages of running or trying to find their sport or to stay active?
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| JH |
The ability to make something playful is a very important component. When someone is tied into the process of play and performance and has fun and builds relationships around the activities rather than trying to win at all costs or tough it out when they are hurt, it is helpful. Instead of running through an injury, a person must ask themself, ‘What is the smartest thing I can do today?’ If you are injured from running, get into the pool in the shallow end, be a tadpole, build your leg strength and don’t jump out of the water too soon. If a tadpole jumps out before its legs develop, it dies. It is much smarter to let your heart, lungs and legs develop in the pool. If you are a brand-new runner, get in the deep end and run with an aqua jogger, learn running form and then come onto land. That is what I encourage people to do. Whatever sport you play, the goal is not a scholarship. Joy and I went to college swimming but ended up breaking World Records in other sports – her in three triathlon events and me on the track. We did set World Records in different sports in the same year, which was a neat accomplishment. But we didn’t do it because we were trying to set World Records. We were only trying to do our best. That took off the pressure. I encourage young people and their parents to learn to conquer a racecourse rather than trying to beat people. Also, focus on performance tasks rather than outcome goals. You have control over tasks, but not over outcome goals.
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| GCR: |
That sums up well the major lessons you have learned during your life. Is there anything else you would like to add to the ‘Joan Hansen Philosophy of How to be Your Best in Life?’
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| JH |
Life is full of unexpected circumstances. The more flexible you are to those circumstances, the more likely you will be to perform and achieve success.
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Inside Stuff |
| Hobbies/Interests |
As I mentioned, kayaking and horses are interests. As kids, Joy and I used to ride our bikes a lot. We also had a pool in the back yard. Our older brother watched us. He also had us out in the front yard standing back-to-back and we had to run around three blocks as fast as we could. The winner would get an ice cream cone and the loser would have to do an extra set. We shared the ice cream cone and the extra set together. Then we would go in the back yard and swim what were called ‘Centurions.’ He would have us dive in, swim freestyle, flip turn, swim butterfly, take ourselves out of the pool, land on our feet, run to the fence, come back, do ten men’s pushups, dive in, and continue that same cycle for an hour. I’ve done Cross Fit because of that and enjoyed it when I lived in Texas and went to the gym. I haven’t done Cross Fit since moving to Arizona, the pandemic and the dog attack. I had to do rehab and still will have corrective surgeries. I love gardening and still do that. I used to seriously landscape. Now I mainly do raised pots and beds and enjoy that. Traveling is nice and I love going overseas. I almost died from complications from a surgery back in 2017. It was a work injury, and the insurance company approved my surgery but then took my surgeon out of their network. I couldn’t use my private insurance and ended up going to Germany where their surgeon and medical care ended up saving my life. I was there for two months. I was in a small village and community in Germany and got to know the people and made friends. It was a wonderful experience and I encourage people to expand their view of life and cultures and realize the beauty of every country
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| Nicknames |
We had friends in the neighborhood and swim team, but there were also neighborhood bullies. Joy and I had awful nicknames from those neighborhood kids. They would surround us and give us pink bellies. Joy was called ‘Joy the Boy’ and I was ‘Boney Joanie.’ So, in grade school it was very vicious. In high school, we couldn’t move through the cliques and didn’t want to be part of cliques because of what we experienced in grade school. We had friendships but were not attached to a group and peer pressure. At the World University Games in 1981, my plane ticket had been lost. I sat down on this park bench and a high school swimmer, Glenn Manga, who was going to go to SMU was there sitting next to me. We talked and had a nice visit. When I ended up not being able to go back home with the track team, I came back and this young man, who was just going into college, took me under his arm and helped me integrate with the swim team. I became friends with him and Steve Lundquist, John Moffett and other swimmers. When I moved to Dallas, I had a neat group of built in friends and my nickname from Glenn Manga, breaststroker at SMU, was ‘Hambone Joan.’ That’s my fun nickname
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| Favorite movies |
I grew up with the classics, so ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ and ‘The Wizard of Oz’ are movies I liked. My mom liked them so we would watch together which was very special. For somewhat newer movies, ‘The Shawshank Redemption’ and ‘Tuesday with Morrie’ were neat. More recently, I like ‘Life is a House.’ It’s an unusual movie, but there is a friend of mine who passed out and went to the hospital only to find he had diabetes, colon cancer and pancreatic cancer, and this movie paralleled his life. That movie stands out because of what my friend was able to do in terms of living life fully with all those challenges
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| Favorite TV shows |
Joy and I were comatose after swim practice and would sit in front of the tube and watch shows like ‘McHale’s Navy,’ ‘I Dream of Jeannie,’ ‘Bewitched,’ ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ and all those types of shows. When there was a commercial break, we would stand up and run into the kitchen from opposite directions because there were two ways to the kitchen and grab for the same thing without saying anything. It was funny. We had each other as best friends and just hung out and watched TV before doing our homework, crashing, and burning. The majority of the TV watching was in the summer
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| Favorite music |
I love jazz and classical music. I like folk and Indie music. As far as heavy metal and acid rock, not so much. Though a cousin performed as a drummer for a band. I enjoyed watching them because I knew him and that makes a difference
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| Funny celebrity encounter |
Belinda Carlisle stands out. I went over to a race in Paris and Tom Hintnaus is a friend of mine. He is a pole vaulter and model. This woman who was with him was wonderful and we became quick friends. I lived under a rock and tuned out from a lot and would just listen to music on my Walkman. I was clueless as I met this woman, and we got along very well. I randomly brought up the subject of singing and asked if anyone liked to sing. She said, ‘I like to sing’ and we started talking about it. She told me she used to sing with a group of ladies. I said, ‘I’m so happy for you. I used to sing in high school.’ I went on and on and said, ‘That’s so cool you get to sing. Does your group have a name?’ ‘Yes, It’s the Go-Go’s.’ I told her that was cool and asked where they sang. Like I said, I’m completely clueless and live under a rock. She told me her name was Belinda Carlisle and I had no clue who the Go-Go’s were. I told her I didn’t know anything about that but that she was cool, and I thought she was terrific, and I was glad to call her my friend. So, I was able to become friends with her without knowing anything about her and everyone around us was dying and trying not to laugh. I didn’t know the names of anyone else in her band. When I moved to Los Angeles there was a little restaurant off Sepulveda Boulevard that was a little train car where you can get breakfast. Anyway, I went in there one day and she was in the very back. We saw each other, screamed, and ran and hugged each other. That was just an impromptu seeing of each other
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| Favorite books |
I used to read a lot and it was any book I could grab. After the dog attack, it changed my eyesight, and I don’t read as much anymore. Here is some background as to how I found out about two of my favorite books. When I was coaching at Concordia University, I thought I was going to get my degree there. I was paid twenty-four thousand dollars to coach, started to recruit, and then things changed, and I couldn’t get my degree there. I was working six-and-a-half days a week and doing four part-time jobs and then I became pregnant with a son. I worked and coached, and my husband and I raised our son together. I didn’t go back to school until after my husband got his master’s degree which I funded with inheritance and earnings from my pro running career. When I finally went back to school, I took thirty-nine-and-a-half hours at Cal State-Fullerton with a son at home at a young age. One of the classes was a parenting class. There are two of my favorite books I want to share. One is ‘The Shelter of Each Other; Rebuilding Our Families’ by Mary Piper. It was a New York Times best Seller and is still relevant today because it speaks of technology, how it invades our homes and how to control the technology so we can raise our families and not have it isolate from each other and be separate. That is a book I recommend to everybody, whether you have a family or not. The second book helped me with coaching because these young athletes who come away from home to a new setting are like two-year-olds. They want to be independent, are away from home for the first time and may get a little wild and off road for a bit. It’s called ‘How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.’ It’s a cartoon format and is wonderful because it helps dialogue for young people, whether they are two-year-olds or college students. It is a wonderful way to connect with them. In college, their freshman year many students go off-road, so it helped guide them, rather than grip them and rip them. It helped be there the best way I could for them so they wouldn’t struggle or flunk out of school. The main purpose of college was to excel and graduate. By their sophomore year they had been on the bungee cord, were at the guardrail and were now on the road and discovering how to maneuver their own life and become leaders next to each other linking arms. That’s what we all are. There are no such things as leaders and followers. We are leaders next to each other, linking arms to make a better neighborhood. When we do that, we have incredible friendships that make a difference. And that is hopefully what we have when we are on our deathbed – people loving us and surrounding us. There are another couple books, ‘Love is Letting Go of Fear’ and ‘The Way of the Peaceful Warrior’ that are very neat books. Those books stand out
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| First cars |
Joy and I had an agreement that we would each have to drive five hundred miles before we could get our driver’s license. Joy said, ‘I’ll do the five hundred miles first. When I get my license, I’ll let you drive.’ What happened was once she could drive our TR3, I didn’t get to finish my five hundred miles. So, she got her license and I got to wait. I rode my bike in college. My first car I got was a stick shift and I didn’t know how to drive a stick shift. I bought it from the coach at MiraCosta College. It was a mustard-colored Volkswagen Rabbit. I learned to drive the stick shift by driving away in it. That was my first car. It was funny trying to drive as there was a little uphill and the car stalled out. All the cars behind me were honking their horns. I finally got it going. I had an SUV I liked when I coached in Ireland. When I saw the minus temperature mark below zero, it was quite a revelation. The heated seats were very nice
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| Current car |
A Honda Accord
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| First Jobs |
We were up at four o’clock in the morning for swimming practice. Our dad would come in whistling revelry, or our brother would get us. Before swimming, we would run next to his bike as our brother rode a double round of delivering papers. Joy and I would run the newspapers up to the front doors of the homes as he rode his bike down the middle of the street. Then we would go to morning swim practice and to school. Then we went back to swim practice and home. As teenagers, Joy and I got certification and babysat. Next, we were lifeguards at Harris Club. That was amazing at the country club because the families adopted us. We celebrated our birthday together and made a German chocolate cake and strawberry pie with fresh strawberries. It was very memorable celebrating with all the families. The following year I lifeguarded in the Bodio of Tucson. Since I took Spanish classes in high school and had spoken Spanish at school, I was quite fluent in the language. When you land in a community where the culture is so family-focused, it was an amazing place. We had no air conditioning, worked in a metal shed and it was brutal. The families were so nice, and my nickname was ‘Blanca.’ There was a contrast between the environment at the country club and Bodio, but they were both wonderful places
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| Siblings |
My older siblings are Jon and Lynn. They are two years apart in age and very close-knit. When Joy and I came along, each picked one of us to be close with. Jon picked Joy and Lynn picked me. If Joy and I disagreed, Joy would step aside, and Jon would come in. Then Lynn would protect me. Jon, Lynn, and Joan would be involved in the disagreement and Joy was off to the side. That’s what growing up was like. Our family was brilliant. Lynn was the student government treasurer or secretary, first chair violin, cheerleader and ended up cheerleading into the semipro ranks in Arizona. My brother swam because my parents told him to pick a sport or play outside. He decided to join the swim team because he could beat up everybody. This was a six feet, four-inch guy, with a large wingspan as a back stroker. He started swimming at age sixteen because the high school swim coach told him he would be better off as a diver than a swimmer since Jon didn’t know how to swim. So, Jon decided to show the coach, joined an AAU swim team and ended up getting a full ride scholarship to Arizona State. He did very well and was ranked eighteenth in the world despite smoking and drinking. The late 1960s were known for drugs and rock and roll, so that is what our brother did. When he finally quit that stuff, Joy and he did an Ironman triathlon together
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| Marriage and son |
My marriage to Rob was very amazing for most of it. I had a partnership for most of those years. Our son grew up in Texas. My husband had a father who was very busy when he was growing up as the President of four hospitals, so he compensated for that by taking charge of Chase and being there for everything in our son’s life. What happened over time is that Chase was involved in soccer, swimming and tee ball, followed by baseball select and football. Rob was coaching and doing statistics. Over time, Chase became his world rather than me. I just disappeared. I was the odd person out in the back. When I would get out of the car and someone who used to open the door for me was now walking ahead with our son and I was trying to catch up, it was a different feeling. We ultimately had a collaborative divorce, though we are still friends. That was good to not tear down each other because kids are fifty percent of each spouse. They are fifty-fifty of two great people who fell in love, were married and had children, which is very neat. Chase isn’t married. He dated some in college. He went to one school, transferred and got his degree in four years from the University of San Diego. He played baseball and coed ultimate frisbee. Then the pandemic came. He lived with family, sequestered, and worked from home remotely. When he moved back in with some former teammates, he did get covid, got through that and survived. Now he works at Kaiser Permanente in San Diego. It is cool to be able to do activities with my son. When I was living in Oregon and he visited me, we were able to go kayaking, hiking, sailing and white-water rafting. Now in Arizona we went kayaking in a double kayak paddling quietly in sync and seeing wildlife which was phenomenal. We also went to the Grand Canyon. Finding adventures to do with Chase is fun and he is much younger than me since I didn’t have him until I was forty years old. It is cool to keep up with him and to stay in shape. I’m not a grandmother yet, but my grandmother lived to one hundred and one years old, so there is always hope
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| Interesting twin work |
Joy ended up going into exercise physiology and personal training even though she had a business and real estate degree. I majored in exercise physiology and kinesiology and ended up starting a nonprofit
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| Pets |
When we were growing up, my brother had a small crocodile that he got at the zoo. He started to let it go in a local park, but a park employee saw what was going on, inquired of my brother and stopped that. It was a good thing, or the crocodile would have grown and been eating dogs and ducks and there could have been small kids getting attacked. We had little fish and salamanders and mudpuppies that we put in our pool. We also had snakes, reptiles and dogs. Some of the security questions online have your first pet’s name, so I might not want to tell you that. As an adult, I rescued and fostered dogs starting with a dog in 2014 named Bailey. Becky McClenney, who was my teammate in Dallas, told me about this dog that was going to be killed. I initially shared about it on social media but, fifty minutes before the dog was going to be killed, I said I would foster it. That is how I started fostering. That dog was amazing. We found a family that had two dogs and three kids and Bailey landed in that family. I had a dog that I rescued. My son and I were in the car and going to a friend’s house. I saw this dog wearing a sweatshirt in August darting in and out of cars. It was a little silky terrier. I instinctively pulled our SUV over, distracted the dog who came over on the grass and barked at me. I scooped it up. The dog was a bag of bones and filthy. It was hot as the temperature was a hundred and five degrees. We rushed it over to a friend’s house and submerged it in a bathtub. That is when I saw pink highlighter on its entire undersides. Kids had done this like it was a toy. We took it to the vet, and it was a dog that should have weighed ten pounds, but only weighed four pounds. We were able to nurse it back with goat’s milk for a month. To this day, ‘Gizmo’ drinks goat’s milk three times a day with her regular food. She is eighteen and has a lot of energy. She is fun to watch and is a treat
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| Favorite breakfast |
Whenever I travel internationally, I like to eat what is typical in each place. In Japan, I had rice with sesame seeds, shoyu sauce and seaweed strips with raw egg. It was amazing and tasted great. So, I can honestly say that I had a Japanese breakfast. When I was in Sweden, I had knackebrod bread with orange marmalade and cheese on top which was amazing
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| Favorite meal |
After the half Ironman in the town of Sater in Sweden, we had a fourth of July barbeque. This guy named Bank had a barbeque of reindeer with tarragon butter, lemon juice and tarragon leaves which were all slathered on the meat and was delicious. He also poured double shots of some unknown drink. He kept pouring double shots and we broke the Sater record of three double shots when we drank six double shots. He was trying to pour the seventh double shot and we said that was enough. We did that though we don’t drink very often
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| Favorite beverages |
I tend to like coffee with Bailey’s or cream. I like wine. When I was in Oregon, near Grand’s Pass there was a little family winery, Schmidt Family Vineyards, that is great. Hawk Vineyard is wonderful. There are many incredible vineyards and wineries in Oregon. I drink I like is the Arnold Palmer which is iced tea and lemonade. When I raced track and field, I didn’t drink beer like many others did before the urine test. I drank water. I had clean tests the entire time in Europe by drinking water and couldn’t figure out why so many drank beer. I thought it was dehydrating and I didn’t really like it. Only recently did I discover beer when I was in Munich in 2017 when there was a fundraiser for dogs at a pet store. They gave us tall beer bottled in Munich with a metal cap and a hinge. It was the best beer, the only beer I ever liked. I bought two bottles and had one that day and one the last night I was there before coming home. I celebrated the fact that I lived. I gained weight from ninety-two pounds to a hundred and four by the time I left Germany
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| First running memories |
My first was the one where Joy and I stood back-to-back and ran in our neighborhood. We raced around Edgemont from Seventh Avenue to Fifteenth Avenue, out to the main street ultimately and around, down and back. In the future when I ran on the track, I would visualize myself running in the neighborhood and I would see myself running past neighbors we knew and loved and their houses. We knew everyone in those three blocks. My mom created something like the Neighborhood Watch program, threw parties and we got to know our neighbors, which was cool. My mom was ahead of her time and was the accountant for our Real Estate company. She was the back half, and my dad was the salesperson and President of a multiple listing service. So, that was my first picture of running. The other memory with my brother was when he was riding his bike on the paper route, and we were running. My dad would periodically get on the bike and ride with us around McCullough Park as kids, but it was mainly conditioning for swimming
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| Athletic and running heroes |
For me, Olga Korbut exhibited fun. She showed what it was like to be in the moment and play out there. I didn’t have idols because Joy and I were twins, and we didn’t think hierarchically. We didn’t learn English until we were four years old, so it was our second language. Our language was peer-based, so it wasn’t an authoritarian language with bias. Parents and grandparents teach babies what to do. Everything babies learn is shaped from their bias, good or bad, in every family. Since we didn’t think of idols, it may have helped us to be brand new and excel. Olga Korbut stood out and so did Don Schollander. His book was amazing. He won those four Olympic Gold Medals, and it was a fantastic book. Doc Councilman was a fantastic coach that we looked up to. My brother was heavily into swimming and wanted to coach so that was the direction we went. When we walked on in college, I didn’t know the athletes with whom I was racing. Had I known their history, it might have been intimidating. Since I didn’t and looked at them as wonderful people, I didn’t have idols. In running, Grete Waitz was a friend. She let me know when they were delaying the start of the World Cross Country Championships, which was very sweet of her. If she hadn’t done that, I would have been doing my strides way too soon. She turned out to be a magical person and Fred Lebow was a great person
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| Greatest running moment |
There was a track meet where I ran two or three races and the next morning I ran the Pepsi 10k. In those races I set personal records in each which I thought was amazing due to the volume or racing I did. Joy and I loved the Aztec Cross Country course. She won the conference meet and then I won. It was a beautiful experience to be racing at Balboa Park with other runners who were my friends. I was able to break the course record as a collegian and held it forever as they changed to another course years later
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| Most disappointing running moment |
In 1980 there was a race that was very hot, I believe in Sacramento. I was dating Jeff Hess at the time who went to high school at South Eugene in Oregon and was an Arizona steeplechaser. We had been up in Eugene and drove down to the meet. It was the flattest I felt for any race except when I had food poisoning at World Cross Country and when I raced at the Nationals indoors. I hadn’t quit a race up until then which was my bread and butter. At that Nationals I ended up stepping off the track because I had nothing in me, there wasn’t anything in the tank, so it was okay. I didn’t look at what happened as a disappointment, but as a puzzle piece. It was just how I felt
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| Childhood dreams |
I wanted to be a jockey. That was a very big dream. We had an agreement with our dad when we were very young that, if we moved before we turned nineteen, we would get to move to a horse ranch. My grandparents had lived on a farm in Illinois and had a ranch in Arizona. My dad had been around horses. I didn’t find out until years later that my dad had wanted to be a jockey. Joy and I were strong swimmers but were very petite with strong upper bodies. Mom drank and smoked when she was pregnant with us, so we were born prematurely. We weren’t large but were strong from the years of swimming and Jon having us hold onto the roof to do fifteen pull ups at a time. We were freakishly strong. In addition to wanting to be a jockey, I also wanted to be a veterinarian and nurse animals back to health. So, those were childhood dreams. Joy ended up racing the modern pentathlon with equestrian jumping and did very well. I ended up volunteering as a horse handler and walker. We ended up around horses in a different capacity
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| Worst date ever |
I had great boyfriends and long-term relationships where we ended up staying friends. My husband even met them. When respect is built, it is very nice. Joy had the date from hell. We were in a sorority together at Arizona as Kappa Alpha Thetas. We weren’t dating anybody yet. Joy was walking in the downstairs of the house and this guy grabbed her arm and said, ‘Hey, will you go to the football game with me?’ She didn’t want to say ‘No.’ So, they went to the football game and this guy drank a lot. Joy and I didn’t drink. He was plastered and would say, ‘I have to empty my flabber. I mean my blabber.’ Joy said, ‘You mean your bladder.’ He was so far gone that she had to walk him back where he needed to go so she could get away from him. That was her first date ever
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| Twin switcheroo one |
I was dating a guy, Riggs Klika. Joy and I had been in many studies of twins because we excelled in athletics and were fearless. We were a source of studies with Nike and other groups. We were in a study in Exeter, New Hampshire. Instead of us flying to our own destinations, Joy flew back with me to Dallas. Joy got off the plane first and Briggs ran up to her to plant a kiss on her. She freaked out and said, ‘I’m not who you think I am!’ That was funny that we fooled Riggs
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| Twin switcheroo one |
This is funny for me, but not so much for Joy. It’s the only time we ever switched classes. We were in sixth grade and my teacher was very strict. And her teacher was a math genius. Back in our era and town, our teachers taught all the subjects. It wasn’t that my teacher didn’t know math, but Joy’s class was at a different level. When we switched on April Fool’s Day, I had a math quiz that I flunked for Joy and my teacher sent her to the principal’s office. That was a fun day for me and terrible for her. That was our one and only time that we switched classes as twins
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| Funny memories |
In Romania at the World University Games there were very long buildings. On one side were the Italians while on the other were eastern block countries. We were sandwiched and isolated. There were guards with Uzi submachine guns and guard dogs. It was quite oppressive. Because I hadn’t left with the track team, I was sitting in the stands. This guy kept trying to take my photo. I didn’t know who he was. It made me think of when I was in Leningrad with the KGB all around us and this Russian guy was trying to give me a letter. I didn’t know if I was going to be arrested by this guy with the camera. I thought he was with the secret police, so I would put out my hand to block him and was always able to deter him. He was trying on all these different days to photograph me like paparazzi do. Here I was walking around in the Athletic Village toward the end of the Games and there were a bunch of people’s photos. I saw mine and thought, ‘Oh, my gosh!’ I had no idea what these photos were for, so I asked a Romanian. He said, ‘You are the Princesses and the Queen of the University Games.’ The guy who had been taking photos was there and we hugged. That was how I discovered I was a University Games Princess, and he gave me the photo
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| Embarrassing moment |
Because we did the paper route with our brother, we would wear our swimsuit and long t-shirt and quickly put on some shorts. It was wintertime and, after the paper route, we were stripping down fast to enter the pool. We were very young and older kids were already in the pool. As I was stripping down to get into the pool, I discovered that I wasn’t wearing my swimsuit. I still had my shirt on, but no swimsuit. And the kids were down low in the pool. That was embarrassing for a young kid to be bare assed right in front of all these older kids I looked up to – Tommy and Charlie Hickcox, Maryanne Graham (now Keever), Duncan Scott and all these phenomenal swimmers in the pool along with our brother. Charlie became a three-time Olympic champion and World Record Holder. Maryanne was a 1976 Olympic swimmer
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| Favorite places to travel |
I love the northwest United States. I lived in southern Oregon before the fires caused me to move. Maui is one of my favorite places to go in the U.S. I would love to visit the northeast. I’ve been to a few of those states, but not all of them. I was in Minnesota for a summer visiting my older sister when I was younger. We got to see the lakes and fish and that was a blast. Internationally, Taiwan is neat. Chi Cheng led the Friendship Games there. The Taiwanese are a group of people who are so gracious and will go the extra length to help others. An example is that a guy got into a cab with me because I had mentioned I wanted to go to a place to buy something. He took me there, introduced me and helped me. So, Taiwan stood out. Italy was amazing before the food poisoning. We travelled around Rome on foot and saw the incredible history right next to cosmopolitan shops. In Italy there are complete strangers eating together. They seat patrons in a restaurant with people you don’t know and, by the end of this three-hour amazing meal, you are friends. It is a neat culture. In Germany, I had a friend who was an Olympian from Canada who opened his place to me and helped me find a doctor. To find that doctor, I went into the town. A family that was leaving their house to visit some friends let me stay at their house. I took care of the cats and cleaned the house and backyard because they were so wonderful. When they got home and saw I did that, they knew I wasn’t a regular Air BNB person, and we became friends. That was very cool to have that. We celebrated a five-hundred-year holiday both on October thirty-first and November first. They had time off from work and we went hiking and spent time together. It’s not often you can say you were able to spend that kind of a holiday together
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| Final comments |
When we walk into a classroom, most people think that the person at the chalkboard is the teacher and everybody at the desk are students. I’ve never seen it like that. Each person is their own teacher and every person surrounding them at the desks is a walking library book. We learn from every single person what to do and what not to do. We all have the ability to help each other out. We are walking library books for each other. It’s beautiful that we have this history of all these wonderful people who should get the credit for the things we know. When we carry people with us that we treasure who may have passed on, their heart, soul, energy of who they are and how much life they have is still alive in this relationship with us. We live fully with all our senses knowing we are alive with them. Thank you for letting me do this interview and thank you for what you do for the running community
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