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garycohenrunning.com
be healthy • get more fit • race faster
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"All in a Day’s Run" is for competitive runners,
fitness enthusiasts and anyone who needs a "spark" to get healthier by increasing exercise and eating more nutritionally.
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This is what the running elite has to say about "All in a Day's Run":
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runners can relate to them."
Brian Sell — 2008 U.S. Olympic Marathoner
"Each of Gary's essays is a short read with great information on training,
racing and nutrition."
Dave McGillivray — Boston Marathon Race Director
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Julie Shea Sutton is best known as one of the ‘Pioneers of High School and Collegiate Women’s Distance Running.’ She was selected 1977 Track and Field News Girls' Track and Field Athlete of the Year and the 1980 Broderick Award winner, as the nation's best female collegiate athlete in all sports. Julie was also voted overall ACC Athlete of the Year in 1980 and 1981. She raced in four World Cross Country Championships from 1978 to 1980, finishing in the top 15 each time with a best finish of fourth in 1978 and scored gold, silver, and bronze team medals with Team USA. At N.C. State, Julie led the Wolfpack to two AIAW (pre-NCAA) Cross Country Team Championships in 1979 and 1980. She was a 12-time All-American and won seven individual AIAW Championships, in cross country (1979, 1980), at 5,000 meters (1979, 1981) and the triple of 3,000 meters, 5,000 meters and 10,000 meters in 1980. In 1980, Julie, her sister, Mary, and Betty Jo Springs scored all 55 of N.C. State’s team points in an AIAW Track and Field Silver Medal team finish by only four points. At Cardinal Gibbons High School (Raleigh, NC) in 1977, she set a prep National Record mile of 4:43.1. Julie is a four-time NCHSAA State Champion at 880 yards (1975, 1977) and the mile (1976, 1977). As a youth, she set National age records in the mile seven out of nine years from age nine to seventeen, including an amazing 5:01 mile at age ten. On the roads, Julie’s wins included the 1975, 1976 and 1977 Cherry Blossom Festival 10-mile, 1976 Virginia 10-mile, 1976 L’eggs Mini-Marathon 10k, 1978, 1979 and 1980 Great Raleigh Road Race 10k, 1979 Nike Club Road Championship 20k and 1980 Maggie Valley 5-Mile. She was on the podium in over 30 major road races. Julie and Mary finished first and second at the 1980 Olympic Trials in the 5,000 meters. Julie won the 1979 Bermuda Marathon, was fourth at the 1981 Boston Marathon and third at the 1981 New York City Marathon. Her personal best times include: 3,000 meters – 9:02.4; 5,000m – 15:41.28; 10,000m – 33:02.32; 15k – 51:20; 10 miles – 55:31; 20k – 1:14:08 and marathon - 2:30:12. She is a member of the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame, N.C. State Athletic HOF, Cardinal Gibbons Athletics HOF, Cardinal Gibbons Alumni HOF, NCAA Track and Field HOF, as well as a member of the ACC's 50th Anniversary Cross Country team, and the NCHSAA's ‘100 to Remember’ female athletes. Julie was elected to Raleigh City Council three times in the late 1990s, founded CoolKidsRun in Raleigh, and had a successful career in graphic design. She was gracious to spend two hours on the telephone for this interview.
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THE BIG PICTURE When an athlete’s career is reviewed, we often discuss championships and records. What did it mean to you to win four North Carolina High School State Track Championships, two each in the half mile and mile and to set the National Record in the mile of 4:43.1 and can you believe that is the still standing North Carolina girls’ record?
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Yes, I can believe it is the state record since the high school athletes now run 1,600 meters which is short of a mile. Most states do run in meters now but, if you convert my mile time to 1,600 meters, it stood for almost forty years as the national record. That was cool. I wore my first spikes ever in that race as a senior in high school. I had wanted spikes so badly, but they weren’t cheap. Some of the Sisters from my school, Cardinal Gibbons High School, came to watch. These Sisters were also our teachers. They had never been to a track and field meet and were in party mode. There was only my sister, Mary, one other teammate and me running. My teammate, Renee, was a hurdler and was also a bridesmaid at my wedding. Just recently I touched base with Renee after being out of touch for a while. Anyway, many of the athletes and spectators had never seen a nun before. This was in rural North Carolina back in the 1970s. The nuns were dressed in full white garments and habits. When we entered the stadium, people were touching the nuns lightly as if to see if they were real. They did so very discreetly. During the competition there were announcements that only athletes and coaches could be on the track and that coaches had to be in certain areas. After I ran that mile and won, the Sisters stormed the track. They weren’t booted out. No one dared. We had a good time. I remember my spikes were clacking along on the asphalt track in Raeford, North Carolina. I had never been there before. I was thinking, ‘I would be faster if this track were tartan,’ because I had always trained on the N.C. State track which was a tartan surface. Setting state records in the middle distances wasn’t that tough because the other girls in the race hadn’t done Junior Olympics. Mary and I had trained much harder than the other girls. A couple of them had trained well, but most were casual runners. They hadn’t gone through the age group route in track like Mary and I had. Swimming was different as, if you were a good swimmer, you trained year around for hours in the pool and did double workouts. Swimmers also did some strength training. We were a bit young for that, but we were used to the rigors of swimming training. We applied that to running and that made it easy for us to eclipse the rest of the field, at least in the state of North Carolina.
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Similarly, how exciting was it each time as you won seven collegiate national titles in track and field and cross country and was it even more rewarding to win two AIAW National team championships with your N.C. State teammates and to celebrate as a group?
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Each time I won an individual event, there was an adrenaline rush. It was so exciting. But I always internalized the feeling because it was cocky to make a big deal of it and to jump up and down. Inside I was thinking, ‘All right! I really won.’ You never know until you cross the line. Something could always happen in the last seconds. I was klutzy and could always trip up and have people run over me and race by right on to the finish line. I had those dreams sometimes about racing. Once the win sunk in, I had a glow for a while and was very happy. It was instilled in me when I was very young that, as soon as I caught my breath, I should turn around and congratulate my competitors. They did their best. They were on the track running each lap as I had, and they aspired to also be up front. When we won the National team championships, it doubled the happiness. It multiplied because my teammates were all excited. This was what we had done together, and it took everyone’s effort. That may be simplistic, but I realized recently that it bound us together. Cross country truly is a team effort. We are all out on the course at the same time. At the National AIAW track meet one year in Eugene, Oregon, there were only three of us. Meme, Betty Jo Springs and I were all running the same events. But it was different in cross country as it was more of a team and group effort. Everyone holds up as one body. All the parts have to be at full strength and work together. It made the win so much better seeing my teammates sharing the joy.
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Accolades can’t be any higher than when you were selected 1977 Track and Field News Girls' Track and Field Athlete of the Year and the 1980 Broderick Award winner, as the nation's best female collegiate athlete. How thrilling was this for you and your family and, when you reflect now, do you ever give yourself a ‘wow’ moment?
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At the Broderick Awards, they had three finalists and didn’t tell us who had won in advance. It was in New York City. They had never selected a track and field athlete to be the top athlete from all sports. I was thinking that, since there was a strong emphasis on women’s basketball and the women were aiming to be on par with the men in terms of fans and attendance, the athlete from basketball was the favorite to win. There was nothing like that in track and field or cross country, though there had been exponential growth for shoe companies like Nike and adidas. That had elevated running in general. The other two finalists were a volleyball player who was there to have a good time and a basketball player, Nancy Lieberman. No one picked me up at the airport. I was twenty years old. Representatives from the Broderick Awards were supposed to be there, but they weren’t, I had to get my own cab, and I barely had enough money. I was broke after I paid for my cab from the airport to the hotel, which was the Hilton in Manhattan. I went to the front desk, they wanted a credit card, and I didn’t have one. I started crying. I felt that I was a nobody who was only there to cheer on and clap for the other finalists. I was turning around to figure out how to get back to the airport, but I would have to take the subway. But that evening, the person who was supposed to assist the athletes found me. He apologized and said he had been busy the entire day. So, I stayed, and everything was okay afterward. I thought that it wasn’t important that I was there, they had three nominees, but I was certainly one of the runners-up. I was telling myself that it was okay, and it teaches me humility. I wanted to go home. But I roomed with the volleyball player, and we had a great time. She was very funny. The next morning, we were on The Today Show. They picked us up in a limousine. Nancy Lieberman wasn’t with us on our ride, but we met her at the studio. Brian Gumbel was the commentator. Nancy was pretty confident and full of herself. He interviewed the three of us and Nancy was a pro. She was very smooth. I thought, ‘Okay, it’s a given who will win.’ When they announced I had won, I was very happy and stunned because all signs pointed against it. That was a great surprise. The winner went on to Detroit and there was a robot there the likes of which I had never seen. My Aunt and Uncle, who lived in a suburb of Detroit, met me there.
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One final award well worth mentioning is you winning the ACC's Anthony J. McKelvin Award in 1981 and 1982 signifying the ACC's best athlete, male or female, since the award hadn’t been split yet by gender. How significant is it that you finished ahead of four legendary athletes – basketball stars Albert King of Maryland and Mike Gminski of Duke in 1981 and future NFL Hall of Famer, Lawrence Taylor, of UNC, and Ralph Sampson of Virginia in 1982?
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That was on a par with the Broderick Award. It was one award whether you were a male or female athlete with no differentiation, which meant a lot. We were evaluated equally. It made me have more respect for myself as a runner and gave me more credibility. It also put me on par with the best athletes in higher-profile sports. I felt like I had arrived – ‘Yes!’ When I was in the dining hall where all the athletes ate, I no longer felt like I was this scrawny distance runner. I felt that I had earned the award and deserved to be there. It was good and built some respect. Those were also awards that I didn’t think I would win.
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Your sister, Mary, and you both have served others – Mary as a Catholic Sister and you as a three-term Raleigh City Council member. Was service a trait instilled in you and your siblings by your parents and what were the biggest challenges and accomplishments when you served on the Raleigh City Council?
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We were always taught to help people when we could and to look for opportunities to help others. It is fulfilling and feels right in internal and external ways. By helping others, you help yourself and it gives you a huge lift. It goes back to the team and how when we won the AIAW cross-country team championships, it was so much bigger and happier. It is the same in life. Service makes you feel that you aren’t just a consumer and that you are making a difference. It feels so good and right, so what can be better than that? What Mary has done is great, but I missed her when she first joined the Daughters of Charity. It is a very good order; they are all about service and I am very proud of her.
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What are some particular initiatives or projects you championed while you served on the Raleigh City Council and afterward?
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I worked for a few years right out of school. Then I was a stay-at-home mom for several years. I always had an interest in affordable housing and local government. I felt very good to get a 16-million-dollar local bond referendum passed for affordable housing in Raleigh. We were able to get legislation passed at the state level requiring landlords to have heat in rental properties in one room other than the bathroom area. That was a minimal standard. I was the only woman on the Raleigh City Council for a couple terms. There was only one minority member on the council for a term as it had been truly a ‘good old boys club.’ They were often mean-spirited, but I learned a lot from the city’s department heads about the business of city government. I feel like I was a voice of reason. I was all in for sustainable development and the impact at the time and twenty or thirty years into the future. I was environmentally conscious. I felt good about what I fought for at the local level. Afterward, I had a career developing affordable housing for families and seniors who were below certain income thresholds. Almost ten years ago now, I helped develop affordable housing for seniors in Pinehurst, North Carolina. No one had developed tax credit housing there. It was a hard fight over a two-year period and we finally persevered and were able to build fifty-six units of senior housing. We went back after the development was complete and seniors hugged us. They had been living in trailers, run-down houses or with family in overcrowded situations. They talked about their new apartments like they were mini mansions. They were so happy to be able to live independently and not feel like they were a burden to their families. That was way more important than a National Championship or a World Cross Country performance. It makes me feel less mad about 1980 and my event not being open to women.
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Many of us who were successful runners, including you and I, have coached others. How did you find coaching your sons and trying to separate mom from coach?
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I volunteered to coach when my sons were running in the Junior Olympic program. They tried other sports too. They played ice hockey, swimming and basketball, none of them gelled. They were naturally good runners. My oldest trained harder than my youngest. Like his older brother, my youngest was a natural racer. You would see them on the line, and they were so focused. They both gave it their maximum and best efforts and were gritty runners. When I coached them as age groupers, it wasn’t much fun for them to have their mom as coach, but no other parents stepped forward to coach kids running distances from the half mile and on up. I pushed them, which wasn’t good. But I loved the sport so much. It helped them when they went to big city schools. It helped them find their place and they had a solid group of friends from sharing the experience of running and racing together.
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When you started CoolKidsRun, what did you find were the primary differences in motivating others of varying talent and dedication versus self-motivation?
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When my boys were grown, I wanted to give back and I started CoolKidsRun. I was trying to make a statement. Soccer was increasing in popularity and taking kids from Little League football. Some of the kids didn’t fit in with the soccer rush and tried running. I limited the group to only fifteen or so kids because I wanted each to have personal attention. Beyond fifteen kids, it’s more like herding cats than coaching someone as an individual. I learned quickly that my goals weren’t the best for them. They needed to set their own goals. I’d offer advice or tidbits about running. We made it fun and happy because, when you are happy, you train better. If you race happily without a ton of pressure, you race better. We had running courses in various city parks. I would stake out the courses with thin survey wire flags. It was so much fun. Afterward, they picked up the flags. At my work conferences and meetings, I would collect trinkets like pens, post it-notes and other freebies. My runners would push themselves to win a highlighter or some other small award at practice. They had as much fun as they wanted during the warmup but were focused during the workout. It was fun, crazy stuff. We did some inventive workouts. They were getting in strong interval training and didn’t realize it. For all of us, it was joyful. We were like an extended family. Some parents even joined in when we needed a couple of people for relay teams. Some of the moms started training and making their own goals. It was a cool dynamic and I did that for a good ten years until my husband and I retired to the mountains. I loved it and felt proud when these kids graduated from West Point, the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy. They send us pictures; my husband and I get Christmas cards from parents, and it truly feels like an extended family. One of the kids who later went to the Naval Academy had what we called ‘magic spikes’ because he kept them so shiny and clean and ran his greatest Junior Olympics cross-country race in them. Another won a highlighter at practice one day and kept it with him for years. I think he took it with him to the Naval Academy.
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RUNNING AS A YOUTH AND IN HIGH SCHOOL Since you devoted time and training to both swimming and running for a number of years, how did you decide to focus on running?
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I was an age group swimmer and walked out on my coach. Eric Schwall was an All-American swimmer at NC. State. He was always sitting fat and happy on his stool watching us swim lap after lap. He would notice some days I was swimming slowly as we did circles in the lanes. One day he asked me why I was lagging, and I told him it was because I had run six miles before swimming practice. I told him where we ran, and I was very keen about running and making that my sport. I was thirteen years old at the time. Then he told me, ‘Anytime you run that far before swimming practice, don’t even bother to show up. Don’t come to the pool.’ We always swam in the pool, and it helped us recover from our running workouts. This was before cross-training was in vogue. It was a big plus for both Mary and me. Every time I turned to breathe, I watched him sitting on his stool. Then I saw him leave. I took that opportunity, which for me was bold as I hadn’t done anything like this before, got out of the pool and raced to the women’s locker room. This was halfway through practice. I stood in the showers until all the other girls finished practice, then I got dressed and went out. That way my dad didn’t know I snuck out early from practice. On the way home, I said, ‘Dad, I am never going back to swim practice again.’ Truthfully, many of the other girls were getting bigger and stronger and it was getting harder to compete in swim meets. I was competing less well in swimming. I was counting laps and liking it less. I needed a change of scenery. Dad said, ‘You don’t have to continue on the swimming team.’ I was surprised and thrilled. That’s when I made running my sport. Much later, I saw my swimming coach and told him the story. He laughed and said, ‘I’m glad I was hard on you.’
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You set National age records in the mile seven times out of nine years from age nine to seventeen, including an amazing 5:01 mile at age ten. How do you think your genetics, long training sessions of both running and swimming, and mental toughness combined to allow you to accomplish these feats? Also, were you having fun or was this mostly intense Focus on racing well?
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It was not a lot of fun. I was happy when I broke a record. When I didn’t, I was bummed, questioning myself and I felt like a failure when I didn’t break an age group record. It started to get too serious. The experience did help me later on when I was coaching other kids. I truly wanted to wear a USA uniform and to make a USA team and do a tour. I did as a junior and senior in high school. The wins, fast times and records were big but, since I didn’t reach that standard every time, it was very hard. It shouldn’t have been that harsh, but I was very hard on myself. I had a love-hate relationship with running.
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Since you were so focused on athletics, was there much time for other childhood activities?
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One time my mom said to my dad, ‘Julie and Mary never get to play anymore. They need to be kids.’ We were always running and training and never had to ask my dad twice to take us to the track or to go for a run. Meme and I had each other when she got serious about running in high school but, before that, dad didn’t like me to run alone. He was always there for us and was willing to drive us where we needed to go to run even if it was through the night to get us to an age group meet. Those were special times.
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While today youths who are interested in running either races in track meets or road 5ks, Mary and you were racing the more common 1970s longer distances such as 10ks and 10-milers in addition to your track racing. Did you enjoy the longer road races or the shorter track races more or did you like racing hard over all distances to test yourself?
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We just liked racing hard at whatever was available to us, and we could fit into our life with school and other demands.
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While you were in high school and college, you won several prestigious races including the 1975, 1976 and 1977 Cherry Blossom Festival 10-mile, 1976 Virginia 10-mile, 1976 L’eggs Mini-Marathon 10k, 1978, 1979 and 1980 Great Raleigh Road Race 10k and the 1979 Nike Club Road Championship 20k, with Mary right up there with you. How exciting was it as a teenager to be racing up front and to take home awards for your efforts with competition that was several years older than you?
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We raced to win. We wanted to win. We were especially excited about travelling – Meme even more so than me. We wanted to go on road trips, not only to race but to have some fun, ride the subways and whatever else we could discover. That was a huge motivation. We would line up for the races and it was new and fresh. We felt like we had nothing to lose. The older runners were in the first wave of Title IX athletes and were often post-collegiate USA stars or still running collegiately. We set low expectations on ourselves and were looking to run good times. During the races we would feel that we were racing at the same pace that we ran in practice around the park when we were training. It didn’t take that much effort, and we would get thrilled. ‘Wow! I can hold this pace!’ I would hear a competitor breathing hard and struggling and think, ‘Why don’t I just go for it?’ We didn’t have pressure and didn’t feel like we were name runners. During the races we would be thinking about what we would be doing afterward since we would see Broadway plays and other sights.
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Switching gears to high school racing for Cardinal Gibbons, you won state titles in 1975 over 880 yards in 2:14.4, in 1976 in the mile in 4:50.8, and in 1977 over 880 yards in 2:16.6 and the mile in 4:43.1. How tough were these races, whether you were off the front by yourself in the mile or racing with stronger competition in the half mile, and how tough was Gail Hafley of Raleigh Millbrook who won half mile in 1976 in 2:12.4?
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I don’t recall that much. I don’t remember Gail beating me as a high schooler, so I may not have been in that race. We are still in touch with Gail to this day and she was at my dad’s gravesite service last fall.
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You raced for Team USA at the 1977 USA versus the Soviet Union dual meet in Sochi, Russia, finishing in third place in the 3,000 meters. How exciting was this experience and what stands out from the race and visiting Russia?
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It was exciting. I felt no pressure. I wanted to run my very best, but it was a first-time experience. After the races there was a dance like a conga line. Some of the athletes were drinking vodka and they had caviar in jars. The sprinters always had to be first in line. They cut in line at the airport. They cut in line for meals. They acted like they were a cut above the rest of the team. Kathy McMillan was there. She was a couple years older than me and had won an Olympic Medal in the long jump. I hadn’t seen her since I was a few years younger and before she competed in the Olympics. She said, ‘What are you doing here?’ I just shrunk. I thought, ‘I qualified at Nationals by being in the top two just like you.’ It was exciting to be in a different country. Since it was the Soviet Union there was this aura of it being different and the ‘friend or foe’ vibe. There weren’t any feelings of dislike toward us Americans – only good sportsmanship.
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COLLEGIATE RACING YEARS Your freshman year at the 1977 AIAW Cross Country Championships, Kathy Mills won by over thirty seconds in 16:50.2, followed by Brenda Webb in 17:24.1, you in 17:27.0 and Ellison Goodall in 17:30.0. How was your transition to racing on the national collegiate stage and were Webb, Goodall and you in a pack for most of that race?
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It wasn’t that huge a transition because Meme and I had raced in some huge road races and with stacked fields in the Junior Olympics where we faced Mary Decker and Joan Benoit. Kathy was the best collegiate runner when I was a freshman, and I was in awe of her. She was very nice, unassuming and modest. She didn’t strut around like she was God’s gift to cross country running or the course.
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Your freshman year at the 1978 AIAW Track and Field Championships you finished fifth in the 3,000 meters and sixth in the 5,000 meters. Were you adjusting well to the collegiate training regimen and did those finishes leave you hungry for higher positions?
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I wasn’t coached by Jack Bachelor yet. We were coached by a P.E. teacher who was a nice person but who didn’t give us great workouts. They weren’t the challenging workouts that Jack gave us in the future. I was bummed and felt badly about my freshman track and field experience at Nationals in Knoxville. I was so disappointed that I think I cried. From then on it got better and better.
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The next fall Mary Decker won the 1977 AIAW Cross Country Championships in 16:57.4, followed closely by you in 17:01.2 and Kathy Mills in 17:01.7. Did Mary race off the front early or break away later in the race? And did you feel a sense of growth since Kathy Mills was over thirty seconds ahead of you the previous year?
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The race was held in Denver. After about a mile or so, Kathy and I broke away from the field. We were probably sixty or seventy yards ahead of the rest of the field, Mary Decker included. Kathy was leading and I was right on her shoulder as we ran with a huge gap over the field. We got to this point in the course, and we didn’t know where to go. Kathy was yelling, ‘Where do we go? Do we turn Right? Left?’ The guy on the course flung his arm out wide and we thought he was motioning his arm for us to turn right. So, we went right. Then we noticed there were no spectators or officials, and the course became very rough. I was thinking, ‘This can’t be right.’ We looked around and people were yelling at us, ‘Wrong way! Wrong way!’ So, we turned around and got back on the course. When we did, there was Mary Decker just ahead of us. We caught up with her. Kathy and I were so upset because we were running our hearts out, got off the course and had to come back. The last hundred yards to the finish was a sprint. Kathy Mills, Mary Decker and I were all shoulder to shoulder. I was thinking, ‘I’m happy with third place. Kathy is the best in the nation. Mary has speed and has been to the World Championships. I’m a goner. But third is good.’ I really thought that. We all hunkered down and sprinted. Mary finished first, I was second and Kathy was third. This was supposedly Mary’s big comeback. She was excited and yelling, ‘Yeah! Woo Hoo!’ But she said nothing about Kathy and me going off course and how our big lead shrunk to nothing. I thought she should at least acknowledge that. Kathy was extremely upset and mad. She was livid. I don’t blame her because I think she would have won. I was hanging on and it was thrilling being up there with her. Sports Illustrated reported on it being Mary’s comeback and missed what else had occurred during the race.
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That was the start of you blossoming on the national collegiate stage. In the spring of your sophomore year, you stepped up several notches at the AIAW 1979 Track and Field Championships, finishing second in the 3,000 meters by four seconds behind Brenda Webb and winning your first individual track title, beating Kathie Mintie of Arizona State at 5,000 meters by 11 seconds. Was Jack Bachelor coaching you and what were the differences in your sophomore year that propelled you to the podium in cross country and your first championship on the track?
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Jack started coaching us that winter after cross-country season. He is extended family and is very dear to us. Jack is very smart and has a biting sense of humor. Around the beginning of the second semester, he was coaching us.
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Can you relate about the 1979 Bermuda Marathon where you were supposedly running only part of the race as a training run, but ended up winning despite inclement weather in 2:46:42 ahead of Joan Benoit who finished second?
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I found a yellowed article about that race. Nike was trying to foster women’s distance running and both Joan and I were invited to run the Bermuda 10k and marathon. It was the first marathon for both of us. There were typhoon warnings, and the winds were so horrific. We circled the island of Bermuda for the marathon course, and it was gorgeous. We ran together until about halfway. I felt stronger and ended up winning. Afterward, she ran the Nike Marathon and won which gave her a nice chunk of prize money. It was nice when prize money became available.
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You won your first AIAW Cross Country Championship in 1979 in 16:35.0, with Margaret Groos in 16:36.9 and Lynn Jennings in 16:40.7 just behind you. What were the key points that led to your victory over these tough ladies?
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Margaret and I had raced each other in high school, and I had roomed with her on a couple U.S. teams. I worked very hard, had a great coach and truly wanted to beat Margaret. She was a rival. We came from very different backgrounds. She was running for the University of Virginia.
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You scored the triple at the 1980 AIAW 1980 Track and Field Championship, winning the 3,000 meters by six seconds, the 5,000 meters by ten seconds and the 10,000 meters in a close race in 33:02.32 in an N.C. State sweep as Mary was second in 33:02.98 and Betty Jo Springs third in 33:03.32. Was this the best meet of your life?
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The first race we ran was the 10,000 meters and it was in a cold rain. Mary, Betty Jo and I talked about a race plan and a pace. The three of us were all trying to win. It was exciting to run in Eugene as we hadn’t had an experience like that before. On the last lap the old wood bleachers were full. The fans were stomping their feet in unison with our strides and the atmosphere was electrifying. It revved us up so much. If you were dead on your feet and heard that pounding of the fans it was a real charge.
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How cool was it that N.C. State finished second in the team standings, only four points behind Cal State – Northridge, 59 to 55, with the three of you scoring all of the Wolfpack’s points?
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We were all at the top of our game. All three of us were running well. Jack was coaching the men and the women’s team. He was a faculty member and coached on the side. Rollie Geiger was an assistant coach and was Betty Jo’s coach. She trained differently and ran separate workouts. We could hear Jack’s voice during races, even in Eugene, Oregon when there was so much clamoring in the stadium. We could hear Jack in an even tone saying things like ‘Pick up the pace, looking sluggish, or two seconds off.’ We could pick his voice out from all the voices in the stadium. It was nice to come around on a subsequent lap and hear, ‘That’s a little better. You’re on pace now.’
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Let’s talk a bit about the 1980 Olympic Trials. The United States team wasn’t going to the Olympics due to the boycott by President Carter as Mary and you raced the 5,000 meters which wasn’t yet on the Olympic program. What was it like to run under those two unusual circumstances as you won in 15:44.12 and Mary were second in 16:07.50 though some athletes have called that Olympic Trials a ‘race to nowhere’?
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| JS |
There was a goal at the Olympic Trials as Nike was behind trying to get the IOC to add a race distance of at least 3,000 meters to the Olympic program for women. We raced in Holland before the Trials and had to run under 9:05 for 3,000 meters as the IOC had stated that there had to be a World Championships at the distance before it could be an Olympic event. The race in Holland was the pseudo–World Championships. Meme and I both ran there with runners from Holland, Germany and other European countries. It would have been great if the IOC had added one or both events, but it wasn’t to be. The Olympic Trials were just a few weeks after I won the AIAW triple, and we were back in Eugene. This was also after the Mount St. Helens eruption in Washington which had occurred one day after the AIAW Championships. There was ash everywhere and there were kids in Eugene with red wagons full of volcanic ash selling it by the bag at the track meet. They were cute little entrepreneurs, and we thought they were smart. There was a Nike hospitality room with new gear for all the athletes who qualified that were sponsored by Nike. They had the same gear for us even though our event wasn’t an official Olympic event, and it made us feel the same as all the other Olympic Trials athletes.
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| GCR: |
Defending a cross-country title is often harder than winning once. At the 1980 AIAW Cross Country Championships, did you and your teammates, Betty Jo Springs and your sister, Mary, run as a pack before you pulled away to win from them along with two other top runners, Joan Hansen and Judi St. Hillaire?
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| JS |
We were all in a pack. I remember Judi being up there. When we were at the mile point, there was a large pack of women up there. That was when I made a separation from the field and stayed out in front. Judi became good friends with Mary and me. She was also at the North Carolina mountain running camp in Brevard with Mary and me that had mainly Florida high school runners. We were counselors together. She was a lot of fun, we got to know her, and we would see her later at road races. We met her boyfriend who became her husband and had great fun at races.
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| GCR: |
In November 1980 at the TAC Cross Country National Championships in Idaho, Mary won in 18:18.7, followed by you in 18:31.1 and three other strong runners, Jan Merrill, Brenda Webb, and Betty Jo Springs. Can you take us through that race and what Mary says are some knee issues, which was the first time Mary finished ahead of you?
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| JS |
First, we have to realize that in the fall there was a full cross-country season, and we were racing every week. By the time we got to the NCAAs, we were in peak form and ready for our season to conclude. Then it was time for open Nationals, and we were thinking, ‘Will this season ever be over?’ We were leg tired and mentally tired. Meme’s birthday was the night before and we all went out to eat. The server brought a cupcake with a candle on it. She bent down to blow out the candle and her hair caught on fire. I was sitting next to her and started whacking her in the head where the hair was burning. And burning hair stinks. She was yelling, ‘Why are you hitting me?’ We almost got into a sister spat right there the night before the race. I said, ‘Meme, your hair is on fire.’ I finally got the fire out and her hair stopped burning. I started thinking that this was going to be a funky race after my sister’s hair caught on fire and I was hitting her on the head. The race was at altitude. We started out and both Meme and I felt strong. Later in the race, I started feeling tired. With about a mile-and-a-half to go, Meme felt great, like a million bucks. She even said to me, ‘I feel great! Let’s pick up the pace.’ I was breathing heavily and said, ‘Just go Meme.’ She did and left me behind. Meme and I had separated from the rest of the field and finished first and second. We were very happy to finish as the top two because there were some very strong women in that race. That was the first time Meme and I were together on the World Championship Cross-Country team.
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| GCR: |
What stands out from your stellar run at the 1981 Boston Marathon where you led for 15 miles before three great runners, Allison Roe, Patti Catalano, and Joan Benoit passed you and you finished a strong fourth place in 2:30:38?
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| JS |
Jack was coaching us, and I snuck off and ran the Boston Marathon. I ran in a brand-new pair of running shoes. I had asked the Nike representative for a pair of white Nike running shoes with gold swooshes. I saved them up for the race and had never worn them until toeing the starting line at the Boston Marathon. I was on World Record pace past ten miles. I looked down at my feet, and those white shoes were pink from my bloodied feet. I tip-toed in and the last several miles killed me. I got home and went to track practice the next day. And Jack said, ‘The next time you pull a stunt like that, I’m not going to coach you. You’re done.’ I was telling him that I wanted to try new things and to have some fun. He was snarky and had biting jokes. I was feeling that I didn’t like that, didn’t like him and was telling some friends about that. We clashed and I was ready to transfer. But, when I researched transferring, I would have to sit out a year and I liked my academic program at N.C. State. When I told this woman on the N.C State staff about my clashing with Jack, she talked to him, and he realized he needed to tone things down. I realized it was just Jack being Jack as he hadn’t coached women before. He ended up being a great coach and friend to me, but it was rough in the beginning. When we were little, Jeff Galloway was living in Raleigh and training with Jack as they had done when they were at the University of Florida together. Jeff was always nice.
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| GCR: |
When you prepared for the 1981 Boston Marathon, did you do what many of us did back then, which was to keep up our training for 5,000 meters and 10,000 meters with an increase in our weekly mileage and a lengthening of our long run to at least twenty miles?
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| JS |
I did the same thing and just added more mileage.
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| GCR: |
In 1981, your senior year, at the AIAW Track and Field Championships you won the 5,000 meters in 16:11.04, ahead of your sister, Mary, in 16:16.02 and Betty Jo Springs in 16:18.76 as N.C. State swept the podium, but you didn’t defend your other two titles. Were knee issues affecting your ability to race multiple events and be at your best?
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| JS |
I had arthroscopic surgery on my knee that spring and was out for a while. The meet was in Austin, Texas. My uncle came from College Park, Texas in his big RV to watch. He pulled right up to the entrance to Texas Stadium. Some of my cousins were there and saw me race for the first time. Betty Jo was sick. We were all not at the top of our game.
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| GCR: |
WORLD CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS +Switching gears to your four World Cross Country races, how was it stepping up to the top of the world stage at the 1978 IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Glasgow, Scotland where you were a strong fourth place in 17:12 and fifth through eighth place were close behind you within the next six seconds?
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| JS |
Kathy Mills and I were roommates on my first World Cross Country Championship team, and she helped me. She bought a half-sized set of bagpipes, tried to learn to play and she was awful. She would blow and it sounded like farts. It was hilarious. It was cool to get to know her since she was the best out there. I met Bill Rodgers and Greg Meyer, and they were both super nice. Bill Rodgers was the best American marathoner at the time, and he was so modest and unassuming. Greg Meyer had a box of cookies after the race, and I was starving. It was the only food on the bus and Greg let me eat the whole box. That saved me. Otherwise, I may have passed out. It was so cool to meet these runners I had read about in Track and Field News and to be sitting across from them on the bus. That built up my confidence and helped me realize they were just regular folks too. For the race, it was pouring rain, the course was hilly, and it was all churned up and very muddy. There were bagpipers along the way, maybe at every kilometer, and that was very neat. The weather was cold and crisp. I was running along with two Romanians and two Russians at one point. It seemed the teammates were supporting each other like Mary and I did in races. I stuck with them. I don’t know when the second Russian dropped off, but it was the four of us running together. I looked at them and thought, ‘Wow! They are so muscular.’ I was happy to finish fourth and to be the first American. Later on, the two Romanians, who finished second and third, were disqualified and banned from racing for a time because of steroid usage. But no medals were ever returned or awarded to fourth and fifth place. That first World Cross Country meet was special more so for meeting Greg Meyer and Bill Rodgers after reading so much about them.
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| GCR: |
The next year at the 1979 IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Limerick, Ireland, Team USA was stellar as Ellison Goodall was third, Jan Merrill seventh, you finished eighth, and Margaret Groos was eleventh as Team USA won the Gold Medal. How exciting and amazing was it to win Team Gold on the world stage?
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| JS |
The race was held on a horse track. The first day we were allowed out to preview the course, there was a dead racehorse out on the course, and we felt that did not bode well. We practiced going over the barriers. There were Irish people betting on all sorts of things. There was betting on which team had the most Irish names, and the U.S. team was ranked right up there with the two Irish teams. It was very exciting, and we were thrilled to win as a team. We didn’t know that we could win, but we did. We all ran well. I swapped my USA jacket with the Irish runner, John Treacy, who won the race and later medaled in the Olympics. He was so nice. I had a crush on him and was happy to have his jacket. He was swapping to be nice.
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| GCR: |
The next two IAAF World Cross Country Championships in 1980 in Paris, France and in 1981 in Spain, were the two times that Craig Virgin won the individual men’s title. You finished 13th both times as Team USA won Bronze and Silver team medals, respectively. Was it a bit disappointing after the 1979 Team Gold or was any podium finish great, and was it cool to have your sister, Mary, on Team USA in 1981?
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| JS |
It was great to get team medals of any color. In Paris I visited the Louvre. I hadn’t been there before. I enjoyed that since I was a design student in school. I spent the days walking the streets of Paris and got very lost. We had less than a full week there ahead of our race. I was a little tired going into that race because I was so thrilled to be in Paris and I wanted to see all of the city. Though I was usually on semester break when the World Cross Country Championships were held, I had the burden of my college classes on top of doing too much walking which wasn’t too smart.
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| GCR: |
POST-N.C. STATE RACING We were there together at the 1981 Maggie Valley Moonlight 5-miler as I finished 15th in 24:25 and you won the women’s division in 26:37. What stands out from that race as you ran at night in the dark and won a race that your sister, Mary, had won the year before in 26:12?
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| JS |
There were some strong invited runners. Maggie Valley is a small mountain town with a ski resort nearby. It was so cool to take over the road. We had that downhill and uphill which was great. It was cool running at night with the street lights on. I didn’t run it the year before because there was an uphill one-mile challenge at the running camp in this park and I got stung by a swarm of bees. That was the year that Meme won at Maggie Valley and broke the course record.
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| GCR: |
You ran another great marathon in 1981 at the New York City Marathon. Allison Roe, who won in 2:25:29, was five minutes ahead of Ingrid Kristiansen in 2:30:08 and you in 2:30:11. How did you like the racecourse and crowds through the five boroughs and did Ingrid hold you off or were you ahead of her and she caught you?
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| JS |
I did not know Ingrid was there. I never saw her. If I had seen her, I would have gone after her and used my last breath and ounce of strength to catch her. I didn’t see her on the course because men and women weren’t separated on the course like they are now. There were packs of men running with the top women and I never saw her and didn’t know she was there.
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| GCR: |
In 1982 and 1983 you were racing relatively well but finishing in the top five in many races rather than winning and your times were slipping before a DNF at the 1984 Olympic Trials Marathon. How much were injuries affecting you, was anything helping you to lessen their effect, and how disappointing was it not to be at full strength for the 1984 Olympic Trials?
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| JS |
In Olympia, Washington, I saw a great orthopedic doctor for several weeks before, and we were trying everything to get me ready for the Olympic Trials Marathon. I had reconstructive surgery on both of my ankles very soon after the Olympic Trials Marathon as there was calcium buildup on the back of both ankles from bones rubbing. It was very painful and hard to train for the race. I thought I could run well with a lot of heart and my background, but I couldn’t. The injuries caught up with me. Afterward, I should have taken a long, long break from running, but I didn’t. Also, life happens, and I got married, which turned out to be a big mistake marrying my first husband. I watched the Olympics on television. I was still on crutches. It was very emotional seeing Joan Benoit coming through the tunnel and into the stadium. Joan had asked if I had wanted to train with her at one point and I wish I had. But I was distracted and injured.
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| GCR: |
A few years later you ran three solid marathons, finishing the 1987 Houston Marathon in 2:52:38, 1990 Virginia Beach Marathon in 2:55:59 and 1991 Charlotte Marathon in 2:51:04. Were you still racing for the love of running, even though you were over twenty minutes off your best times, and what led you to finally step back from competitive racing?
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| JS |
Since I was out of running for a while, I came back and was testing the waters a bit to find out if I could still train and compete. After running and racing for so long, it was hard to put it behind me. After I did it for a while and tried to come back, it was disappointing. I was also working and didn’t have a training group. I think the time had passed and I was done. I started to love running more when I wasn’t training to race. I enjoyed the trails, and it was my escape. My dad was a great help to me when my boys were little. My dad would babysit for me so I could get a run in.
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| GCR: |
WRAPUP For those who do well in sports, there are accolades. You were inducted into the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame, the N.C. State Athletic HOF, USTFCCCA HOF, Cardinal Gibbons Athletics HOF, and the Cardinal Gibbons Alumni HOF, as well as a member of the ACC's 50th Anniversary Cross Country team, and the NCHSAA's ‘100 to Remember’ female athletes. Is it nice as the years go by to be remembered for your running accomplishments even though they occurred a long time ago?
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| JS |
It is nice. There was a period when I had kind of rejected running and felt that I needed to have an identity separate from Julie the runner because it had dominated my life. I wanted to have a career and to be the best mom I could be. I wanted to develop as an artist. I didn’t want to go into hiding but wanted to have a lower profile and focus on other aspects of life. I wanted to be more multi-faceted instead of having tunnel vision. But it was nice to receive those awards.
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| GCR: |
You mentioned falling in love with running and enjoying trail running, which I do as I live three miles from trails. What is your current training and fitness program to stay healthy in your sixties?
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| JS |
I haven’t been able to run for several years. My knees are totally shot, and I should have knee replacement surgeries. I am hoping that when I can barely walk and have to get knee replacement surgeries that, hopefully, the surgeries will be such that I will be able to jog again. Now it is too painful to try to run. I love to hike. My husband, Bruce, and I have been to most of the National Parks. I go to the YMCA a few times each week. I do the open stride machine and the exercise bike. I especially like riding my bike on the local greenway.
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| GCR: |
What can you relate about other facets of your life including community involvement and working in the field of graphic design?
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| JS |
Athletes need to be more than only a runner and it was very important for me to have a professional life. Towards the end of my running career, I was ready to have that phase of my life over. I had a very strong desire to run recreationally and therapeutically. I wouldn’t have said this back then, but I am sort of grateful now for the wear and tear on my body because it forced me down another path. It allowed me to have a more balanced lifestyle including a career and other parts of life that are important.
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| GCR: |
Though you don’t run competitively, do you enjoy being a spectator of running events and other athletics?
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| JS |
I love watching the Olympics now and am an Olympic fanatic. My husband and I watch NBC Peacock and all of the events. I love it when women are hugging each other after their events. They are sometimes in tears, and I love that camaraderie among athletes. It is great now to be an onlooker rather than on the track.
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| GCR: |
What are the major lessons you have learned during your life from balancing academics and athletics, the discipline and sacrifice that running encourages, service to your community, coaching others, balancing life’s aspects, and adversity you have faced that encompasses the philosophy of Julie Shea Sutton which will encourage people to reach their potential as a runner and as a human being?
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| JS |
A person has to put everything in perspective. You have to have extreme focus to succeed at the elite level. But it comes to a point where enough is enough and there has to be more to life than running and everything revolving around running. It was important that I started my career before I started a family. It was important to me to do public service. When I first ran for public office, I was telling Meme about it. She had already joined the Daughters of Charity. She said, ‘You know Julie, this isn’t like when we would fly somewhere to run in a race and didn’t win. If you run for Raleigh City Council and lose, everyone will know you lost. Will you be okay with that? It could hurt.’ I figured if I didn’t win, I didn’t and I would move onward. There are transitions in life and we should always put our best foot forward. I had two good parents who always supported me, and I can never, ever remember my mom being anything but kind and helpful. I never witnessed her being rude to anyone we met. That is also true of my dad. He could be bold if one of us kids acted badly. My dad did rule but we could not have got where we were without his support.
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Inside Stuff |
| Hobbies/Interests |
I always liked art. I like topography and design
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| Favorite TV shows |
We didn’t watch much TV when we were kids because of running, swimming and schoolwork. We did go to the Winn-Dixie and pick up these horse race cards. Then we would watch horse racing on TV to see if our horse won. If they did, we would win a dollar or five dollars and that was very exciting
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| Favorite music |
We listened to hits of the 1970s and 1980s
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| Favorite books |
As a kid, I was interested in the Nancy Drew books. I also tried to read all the Pulitzer Prize winning books that I could get my hands on. I read ‘The Grapes of Wrath’ on a trip to Oklahoma. In school we had English and Literature as two separate classes which I liked. I enjoyed reading Ray Bradbury’s ‘The Martian Chronicles’ and other science fiction. I liked the Magazine ‘George’ founded by John F. Kennedy, Jr.
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| First car |
I had my first car a year or two after I was out of college. It was a Mercury LN7. It got great mileage. I paid for it with money I saved from races including parts of my per diem provisions. They might give us fifteen dollars a day for food, so I would buy one meal and save the rest
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| Current car |
A Toyota Prius that I’ve had for ten years
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| First Jobs |
Some summers we spent two or three weeks working in the mountains of North Carolina. One time we were in Athens at the University of Georgia. But we were mostly at Brevard at a camp run by Roy Benson who was the distance coach at the University of Florida. It was a Nike running camp. We sold programs in Raleigh at the football and basketball games. At the football games, I would walk the entire area around the stadium selling programs with a big apron. My sophomore year of college there were a bunch of my classmates tailgating and there I was sweating with this bag of programs and change loaded down in my arms looking grubby. I felt like I was second class and should be dressed up. It got old. We sold programs in high school too, walking up and down the stadium steps. I also sold peanuts, popcorn and drinks. This helped us raise some money
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| Family – wife and mom |
I did find Bruce, the love of my life, but it took me a long, long time. We’ve been married thirteen years. He is my very best friend and is truly a Godsend. We like living in the south. I’m Julie Sutton and like to be referred to as Julie Sutton, not Julie Shea. I have two sons, Mitchell and Nicholas
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| Pets |
We had our Jack Russell Terrier named ‘Skeeter.’ He didn’t know he was a dog. He thought he was a boy. He ran around with my two boys. He was a great dog – a loyal and true dog
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| Favorite breakfast |
Eclairs. I would have them for breakfast and dinner if I could have my way
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| Favorite meal |
My husband’s eggplant parmesan
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| Favorite beverages |
A fresh fruit smoothie
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| First athletic memory |
My first time on the swimming team was when I was seven years old and I thought of myself as a swimmer. My dad had been an assistant track coach for years, so we hung out at the track and the track athletes were tolerant of us playing hide-and-seek. When I was nine years old, almost ten years old, it was the first time I ran a mile for time on the track. The N.C. State track had recently been resurfaced with tartan material. So, the time would be official for a possible age group record, there had to be three timers. Gareth Hayes was one of the N.C. State runners and he was so good looking. I knew he was in college, and I was nine years old, going on ten, but I had a crush on him. He was so handsome, and dad was having Gareth pace me for the mile. I was aiming to go under six minutes. He set a good pace, and I tried to match his stride because I didn’t want Gareth to think I was just this little kid, but I was overstriding. I ran a 5:40 mile and my name was in the newspaper for the first time. I was a shy and unconfident kid. Now my name was in the newspaper. Gareth was shaking my hand and patting me on the back. He paced me for several mile time trials after that one
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| Running heroes |
There were big track meets at Wallace Wade Stadium at Duke University. There was the Martin Luther King Games and the USA versus USSR. We always went to those meets. It was great inspiration watching Steve Prefontaine and the Kenyans. We recognized some of the officials because my dad knew some of them and never met a stranger in his life. So, we knew how to go through this wooded area and over a wall to get trackside. The officials saw us sneaking down to the track but let us do so. Gail Hafley was with us. That is where I met Steve Prefontaine on the infield and got his autograph when I was a little kid. And he was nice. I also got Kip Keino’s autograph. We had little red covered autograph books. I met Wilma Rudolph and got her autograph on a beautiful, illustrated book about her that I treasured. Babe Didrickson and Wilma Rudolph were my first women heroes. Wilma Rudolph was particularly, and she was such a classy woman who had a certain grace about her. Bill Rodgers was so nice. He was so unassuming and friendly and didn’t act like the elite runner that he was at all. When he started his apparel company, he sent Mary and I jackets to try and to let him know our thoughts. I kept that jacket for a long time. We came to admire and love Jack Bacheler, though he wasn’t my running hero
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| Childhood dreams |
I always wanted to run in the Olympics, though I never got to. I wanted to travel and was able to do that. As far as a career, I wanted to become a graphic designer, did that and liked that vocation
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| Funny memories one |
When we were in Seattle for Nationals, there was a coaches’ race before the main event. Jack was there, thought about running, and asked us if we would warm up and continue with our race. We said, ‘Jack, trust us, trust us.’ He hadn’t brought running clothes and didn’t want to run in his heavy sweats. So, we piecemealed together a women’s uniform for him because we had an extra singlet and pair of shorts. Jack wore those women’s brief shorts, and he looked uncomfortable. He ran in that and we thought it was funny. He had designed the logo on our singlets. He ran the race, I think he won, and he had fun
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| Funny memories two |
The next day in Seattle it was overcast, and the sky was kind of glowing as there was a heavy mist in the air as the sun tried to shine through. It was an early morning, radiant, fluorescent kind of day. Jack, Meme and I were doing a long run. We always did a good warm down after a race and a good, long run the next day. When we ran with jack, we knew he could go on and on and on because he was a better runner than us. We were hoping he didn’t run us to the point that it was so hard that we couldn’t run another step. So, we were running along, and it was just the three of us out on the streets because it was so early. Conversation flowed and then, off in the distance, we saw this run down, silvery shack. In front of the shack was this apple tree and it had beautiful apples. The red apples seemed to glow. They were orbs dangling from this old, gnarly tree that had been abandoned in front of an old crumbled down shack made of that old barn wood. It seemed four dimensional in the mist. We ran toward it and climbed over the broken-down fence in the yard. We were looking out for snakes. We picked the apples, but didn’t have bags with us. Meme and I were stuffing as many as we could in our shirts and shorts. Jack was doing the same thing. We didn’t stop to think that we weren’t going to be able to get all these apples on the plane when we went back to Raleigh. Any place we could stuff an apple, we did. We were bulging out, lumpy, and it was hilarious. The front and back of our shirts and front and back of our shorts were full of apples. We also carried one in each hand. Then we ran back to the hotel and, as we ran, the apples started tumbling out. I would laugh and say, ‘You lost one.’ Then Meme or Jack would say, ‘You lost one too.’ We were laughing and laughing. By the time we got back to the hotel, we only had a couple apples left. It was so funny as the apples were rolling down the road and we were beside ourselves with laughter. That was a kind of eerie time of day and was fun and so special
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| Embarrassing moments |
Let me tell you something about Meme. She is as good as they come. She loves people and is giving and selfless. But she laughs the hardest and the longest and the loudest when you embarrass yourself. If I do something totally embarrassing, nothing makes Meme crack up more. She gets a hoot. It can happen at church or on the run. She used to laugh her head off
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| Favorite places to travel |
We love Glacier National Park and Olympia National Forest. We always go back to the Smoky Mountains. I feel drawn there. My husband and I have been on a waterfall hunt for years. We like Highlands, North Carolina. Lake Lure is nice. We love all the National Parks. Internationally, I like the coast of Ireland. County Kerry and the Dingle Peninsula are fantastic. The countryside and rural parts of Ireland have such natural beauty
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