Bernard Lagat Interview

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Bernard Lagat — February, 2025

Bernard Lagat is a 13-time medalist in the Olympics and World Championships, including five Gold Medals. Bernard is a five-time Olympian, in 2000 and 2004 for his native country of Kenya and in 2008, 2012 and 2016 for the United States after becoming a U.S. citizen. His most outstanding achievement is double Gold Medals at the 2007 World Championships at 1,500 meters and 5,000 meters. Lagat scored Olympic Medals at 1,500 meters in 2000 (Bronze) and 2004 (Silver). At the World Championships, he earned Silver Medals at 1,500 meters in 2001 and 2009 and at 5,000 meters in 2009 and 2011. Bernard also was an Indoor World Championships medalist at 1,500 meters in 2003 (Silver) and at 3,000 meters with Gold Medals in 2004, 2010 and 2012 and a Silver Medal in 2014. At the World Cup, he was Gold Medalist at 1,500 meters in 2002 and at both 3,000 and 5,000 meters in 2010 along with a Bronze Medal at 3,000 meters in 2014. Bernard is a 15-time USA Champion and four-time captain of Team USA. He won the Wanamaker Mile at the Millrose Games a record eight times. Iconic victories include the Prefontaine Classic 2-mile in 2008 and 3,000 meters in 2009 and the Peachtree Road Race 10k in 2018. Bernard’s many victories in Europe include wins in Athens, Berlin, London, Melbourne, Glasgow, Rieti, and Stockholm. He is a graduate of Washington State University where he won three NCAA titles in 1999 at the mile and 3,000 meters indoors and 5,000 meters outdoors. In 1998, Lagat anchored the distance medley relay to an NCAA indoor win and World Record. Additionally, Bernard won 11 championship races against Pac-10 and Mountain Pacific Sports Federation competition and earned 11 NCAA All-America certificates. His personal best times include: 800m – 1:46.0; 1,000m – 2:16.18; 1,500m - 3:26.34; mile – 3:47.28; 3,000m - 7:29.00; 2-mile – 8:12.45; 5,000m - 12:53.60 ; 10,000m – 27:49.35 half marathon – 1:02:00 and marathon – 2:12:00. Bernard was inducted into the Washington State University Hall of Fame in 2009, RRCA HOF in 2019, Inland Northwest HOF in 2024 and was named a 2023 Great Immigrant by Carnegie Corporation. He is University of Arizona Head Cross Country Coach and Assistant Track and Field Coach. Lagat is a liaison between USATF athletes and World Athletics. He started the Lagat Foundation in 2004 to educate student-athletes. Bernard resides in Tucson, Arizona with his wife, Gladys. They have a son, Miika, and daughter, Gianna. He was very gracious enough to spend over two hours hours on the telephone in two calls which we finished in February 2025.

GCR:

THE BIG PICTURE When you look back at age fifty on your running career, could you have imagined when you started out that you would become a five-time Olympian and a thirteen-time medalist in World Championships and Olympics including five gold medals? And though there may be a few times that you had hoped to be higher on the podium, was your running career very satisfying?

Yes, I look back and I am grateful for everything I have been able to achieve. Right now, when I am coaching collegiately, I look at these young people and think that I started out this way without even once thinking that I would be an Olympian. With the coaching and guidance, I received and with others I was able to rely upon as role models for me, those people made it possible for me. When I came to America to go to college and embraced the college system and afterward when I became a professional runner, it came down to learning hard workouts and being determined in everything I did. For that reason, I was able to accomplish what I did with the support I received from many people.

GCR:

In the early part of your running career, you competed for your homeland of Kenya. But you became an American citizen and then competed for the United States. Can you compare the pride you felt competing for your home country, the pride you realized competing for the country where you chose to become a citizen, and also any input from your coach, family, and competitors when you switched the country you competed for?

When I was competing for Kenya and going to my first University Games in Palma de Mallorca, Spain, the pride was there. No one knew all the Kenyan running history like I did at that point. The pride I felt was so much as I was going to be one of those athletes. I was actually wearing the Kenyan colors and representing Kenya at the World University Games. It was unbelievable to have that feeling. The same thing happened when I was in the United States training for my first Olympics. In 1996, when I came to America, I missed making it to the Olympics in Atlanta. At Washington State, Coach James Li told me he was going to coach me not only to be the best in college, but also to go to the Olympics. When I made the team, I thought, ‘What a career.’ I didn’t realize I was just getting started. I looked at Coach Li who had supported me from day one and through all the hard days of training. The pride of walking in the Opening Ceremonies and Closing Ceremonies in Sydney, Australia was unbelievable. The same thing happened in 2001 when I was competing for Kenya at the World Championships in Edmonton. My coach and I had to drive from Pullman, Washington to Alberta and we were there to compete. The pride was amazing. When I became an American citizen, I didn’t know I would feel the same way. But I was invested one hundred percent, and one hundred percent bought in, and it changed things. I found myself having the same feelings for the United States. But I also was giving back. When I was competing for Kenya, there was no element of giving back. It wasn’t instilled in me as I was competing for pride. But, in the United Staes I was giving back. I didn’t pay for my college education. Somebody else did. That money did not come from investors. Somebody in the United States donated that money for me to have the opportunity. Of course, students don’t know where the money comes from. I didn’t know and don’t even know now. But I had this opportunity to be the first one in my family to graduate from college. Somebody had to pay for it or it was taxpayer money. So, I had the pride of representing the United States and the red, white, and blue plus that added element of giving back to show my appreciation. When I ran for Kenya, I was running for Kenya. When I ran for the United States, there was no looking back. When I won the two Gold Medals in 2007 at the World Championships in the 1,500 meters and 5,000 meters representing the United States, I was giving back and hoping to inspire a new generation.

GCR:

How exciting was it to not only make your first Olympic team for the 2000 Sydney Olympics, but to earn a Bronze Medal in the 1,500 meters and to be on the podium?

It was an amazing feeling. In my head before the Olympics was the thought, ‘God, please don’t let me come in fourth place.’ There were higher chances of me coming in fourth place rather than third place. In my mind, I thought the chance of me getting a Gold Medal was not there. Likewise, I thought the chance to get a Silver Medal was not there. If it came down to the Bronze Medal or fourth place, I would be dying for the Bronze Medal. There were two competitors for me that were the toughest for the Bronze Medal and, on any given day, they could beat me if I had a bad day, and I didn’t know when I was going to have a bad day. These two gentlemen were the Canadian, Kevin Sullivan, who is now the Director of Track and Field at the University of Michigan and Mehdi Baala of France. These young men were the ones who were giving me a run for my money. Since Hicham el Guerrouj and Noah Ngeny were there racing for the Gold and Silver Medals, it was us three guys going for Bronze. So, again I was thinking, ‘Please don’t let Kevin or Mehdi finish in front of me.’ I knew that, if I beat Kevin and Mehdi, but Hicham and Noah were in front of me, I would be so happy. And that is what happened. I don’t want to diminish what Noah did getting the Gold Medal and what Hicham did getting the Silver Medal, but I was the happiest guy.

GCR:

The next year at the 2001 World Championships in Edmonton you moved up one spot and earned the Silver Medal in 3:31.10 behind Hicham el Guerrouj in 3:30.68 and just ahead of France’s Driss Maazouzi in 3:31.54. Was that as good as you could have hoped for?

Absolutely. At that point Hicham el Guerrouj was the strong favorite. If he weren’t there, I would win. If we both weren’t there, a few guys could win. It was an uphill battle, but I did have a sense that I belonged in the first two spots. It was also the first time I thought, ‘Hey, I could beat Hicham el Guerrouj.’ The plan was to go for it. Coach Li didn’t want me to think that I would be second to el Guerrouj and so I didn’t want to be the bridesmaid. Coach Li told me, ‘I am coaching the guy who is going to win. I am not coaching the guy who is going to come in second place.’ I went from a guy who was happy to get second to a guy who was thinking, ‘Okay, it’s game on.’ Hicham el Guerrouj was my friend outside of running, but I decided we should get going and see who would win. He beat me again.

GCR:

After the World Championships there was a World Record attempt at 1,500 meters in Brussels aiming to break Hicham el Guerrouj’s 3:26.00. You both smoked it as he ran 3:26.13 with you right behind at 3:26.34. Can you take us through that race, how that fast pace felt and how much you tried to beat him but still fell a bit short?

That is the race when I put in everything that I had. Running is ninety percent mental and that controls how you race. I was very fit and el Guerrouj was fit. It came down to the strategy at that point. We didn’t know that Hicham el Guerrouj and his camp were going for a World Record. I had no idea. It was a tightly kept secret that I didn’t know. It came down to one of my pacemakers, Kevin Lalai, bless his heart as he has passed away. He told me to stay tight and I knew something was going to be happening. He didn’t have to say much. I was mentally ready when we were still at the hotel. It was the last race of the season, and I felt when he took a step in front of me that I would follow him. I planned to not give el Guerrouj even one step. I went into the race prepared mentally to give one hundred percent. I was told to stay tight and that was my strategy. I ended up hanging tight and it ended up being a race that was not as hard as people might think it was because I was ready. When I ran at the World Championships and el Guerrouj beat me by 3:30 to 3:31, it felt like I was run over by a truck. But in this race, I didn’t know I was running so fast. There was an agent on the infield after the race who told me I ran 3:26 and I couldn’t believe it. Then I asked to be drug tested because I hadn’t been chosen for the random drug testing that day. I pleaded for them to drug test me because it was a Kenyan National Record. They still weren’t going to drug test me until I kept pleading and they finally did. I wanted the record to be ratified, and I wanted it to be legitimate. I didn’t want any questions to be asked about me.

GCR:

In 2004 at Zurich prior to the Olympics you ran 3:27.40 to beat Hicham el Guerrouj for the first time. Can you tell us about that race as it was a win that had been a long time coming?

When the 1,500 meters was being discussed around that time, people could not talk about Hicham el Guerrouj without talking about me. I was the only person other than el Guerrouj to run under 3:27. At that point I was thinking that this was it. In 2004 I knew I was ready. I had already made the Olympic team and was ready to represent Kenya for the final time. When I beat el Guerrouj for the first time, it was our last head-to-head meeting before the Olympics in Athens.

GCR:

The 2004 Olympic 1,500 meters was a race for the ages between Hicham el Guerrouj and you. Can you take us through that race, the slow early pace, the fast last 800 meters in 1:46 and the tactics over the final stretch as Guerrouj was able to claim the win by only twelve hundredths of a second?

At that time, both Morocco and Kenya wanted one of their athletes to win. Whatever the Kenyan team thought was needed to help me win was the hope. In the Olympic Village, we were talking about strategies. The initial plan was to ask one of the young guys, Isaac Songok, to pace the race for me. I told them that I didn’t want that to be the plan. Isaac was not there to pace me. He was there to compete in the Olympics. I decided that, if the Moroccans wanted to pace it for el Guerrouj, let them do it. I wasn’t going to have Songok pace the race for me. We lined up to race and Isaac had a false start. He was young and didn’t know what to do. He was a military man, and the coaches had told him to pace me. I was a civilian and told him to chill out and run his race. But he was in the military and was used to following orders. He started out fast and nobody followed him. We knew the Moroccans had a strategy also and I decided to rely on following their strategy. I was okay with playing their game because I was used to team strategies. Adil Kaouch of Morocco was the one who took off from the pack. I knew that was the Moroccan’s strategy. So, I planned to stay with el Guerrouj until the end. I overreacted a bit and started my move with one hundred meters to go. I did it and passed him but, if I had waited until eighty meters to go, I could have held him off, but he passed me back. My coach told me to remember that my strongest kick lasts for eighty meters, so don’t overreact. I started early with a hundred meters or possibly a hundred and twenty meters to go and that was not a smart move to make. That cost me the Gold Medal.

GCR:

Speaking of Gold Medals, three years later how thrilling was it to score double Gold Medals at the 2007 World Championships in the 1,500 meters and 5,000 meters in such tight races as Rashid Ramzi and Shedrack Kibet Korir were only two strides behind you in the 1,500 meters and you nipped Eliud Kipchoge by thirteen hundredths of a second in the 5,000 meters? Can you take us through those races and how were you able to take home the two Gold Medals for the USA?

Those races were important for me for many races. I was now a United States citizen and representing the United States. I was eligible to compete just a day before even though I knew I was going to be eligible. I was held back from competing for the U.S. in 2005 and 2006 because of rules that did not make sense. I wasn’t a selfish guy. I always put my heart out there. Since I couldn’t compete for the U.S. in 2005 and 2006, in 2007 I had extra motivation to show everybody they did wrong. My thoughts were to show them they were wrong and that I was going to win. I wanted to show the few people that didn’t grant me clearance to run for the United States the previous two years what I could do. I shook hands with the Kenyan athletes, and we gave each other high fives because we competed against each other in 2005 and 2006 even though I wasn’t able to compete for Kenya or the U.S. But I had been competing in Europe with them, and we were friends. I wanted to win, and I was able to win the 1,500 meters first. Winning the 5,000 meters was like a bonus. I knew it was going to come down to just a few guys. If they ran smart, Kipchoge was a 12:46 guy at that point and I was a 12:59 guy from Berlin in 2005. There was a big difference and 12:46 was fast. If they ran their own race, I wasn’t going to have a chance. But they decided to run my race and go out easily. When they left four laps to race, the calculation was different. Now I could go all out for the last mile. I’m a miler and that is where I am comfortable. My mind was fresh. My legs were fresh. I was confident. I was keeping calm and watching in case someone tried to pull something surprising. The strongest competitor was Eliud Kipchoge, and I was afraid of him. But I did not show it. I figured that, if they didn’t take it out fast early, the race would be mine. And it happened that way.

GCR:

The next two Olympics didn’t go as planned as during the 2008 Olympics you ran with an injured Achilles tendon and in 2012 you finished fourth after being tripped and knocked off balance. How disappointing was it in Beijing in 2008 and in London in 2012 to not have the outcomes for which you had hoped?

I had been lucky all of my career until 2008 to not be injured. Then in 2008 I developed an Achilles tendon problem after the Olympic Trials. I had two intense finals in ten days and a total of five races since there were three rounds in the 1,500 meters and two rounds in the 5,000 meters. That was way too much racing. We don’t do that in practice or in season. My Achilles tendon was upset all the way to our training camp for Beijing. I had treatment from my doctor when I was in Germany, and they helped me. But there isn’t much that can be done for an Achilles tendon issue. That is what I learned. For the final three weeks before the Olympics, I didn’t do much real training. I rested and did cross training. There were some days that I couldn’t even put weight on my leg. We even wondered if I would be able to race. In the Olympic 5,000 meters, I did the best I could while we were treating the injury, and I made the finals. I came in ninth place. In the 1,500 meters, I didn’t make the final because I was in 13th place and only 12 athletes made the final. Rashid Ramzi won my heat and that is why I didn’t make the final. He later had drug suspensions. If he hadn’t been in my heat, I might have made the final in 12th place. And you never know what might happen in the final. It might have been a slow early pace that went fast late, and I might have won. The fact that Rashid Ramzi was in my heat and knocked me out of the finals gave me mixed feelings because I would otherwise have been in the finals. I was extremely disappointed about that. In 2012 I was timing my finish and feeling so good. Then I got tripped by this young guy, Isiah Koech, from Kenya. I was feeling good coming into one hundred meters to go. As I made my move, Koech was behind me and crossed from the outside to the inside. When he did that, I was tripped and stumbled. When I look at the race video, I don’t understand how I did not fall and go down. When that happened, I was stumbling and lost ground. Mo Farah was booking it. I was in seventh position and was able to get out and pass a few guys in that short time, but I came in fourth. It happened and it was disappointing and heartbreaking to come in fourth. If I had recovered to come in third, I would have at least been on the podium, but that didn’t occur.

GCR:

Let’s switch gears to indoor track racing. One event I have always followed is the excitement of the Wanamaker Mile at the Millrose Games. I interviewed Don Gehrmann, who won four times from 1949 to 1952, but I haven’t interviewed Eamonn Coghlan yet. You tied Eamonn Coghlan’s record of seven Wanamaker Mile titles in 2007 and broke the tie with your eighth Wanamaker Mile victory in 2010. How exciting was it to tie and then break Eamonn’s record as I know you are good friends to this day?

I was so happy. Eamonn was there when I won the eighth time. Before the race, he looked at me like he knew I was going to break his record. For some reason, I liked racing indoors. My coach and I would time it to where we were going to make my kick. We would train over the winter for indoors and, by February, I was ready for the Millrose Games. I admired Eamonn and, if he hadn’t won seven times, I may have won once or twice and then I would be done. Because he had won so many times, I won once, then two times, then three times and I started looking forward to the Millrose Games every year. I was always thinking, ‘I’m going to win this.’ I wanted the Madison Square Garden mile record and got that with a 3:52 mile. Then I wanted to achieve the most Wanamaker Mile wins. I was incredibly pleased to win eight times and to have a ninth win there in the 5,000 meters. Early in the year, I met up with Marcus O’Sullivan and Eamonn Coghlan and we were honored because of our historic Wanamaker Mile wins.

GCR:

Though the primary focus of athletes and fans is on outdoor championships, how do you remember and rate winning World Indoor Golds at 3,000 meters in 2004 in Budapest, in 2010 at Doha just ahead of Tariku Bekele and in 2012 at Istanbul with three athletes less than half a second behind you?

The 3,000-meter distance is amazing and is perfect for me. I was a guy who could run 1,500 meters and the mile and had good speed in the 800 meters. I was also a good 5,000-meter runner and cross-country runner. The 3,000 meters was perfect for me. The race wasn’t too short, it wasn’t too long, and I loved it when I was racing indoors. I loved starting slowly and picking up the pace. When it came to the last 800 meters, I always felt comfortable. I was already thinking, ‘This is a nice win for me today.’ I knew that I was going to go at 600 meters or later. There were other times that I felt so good that I opened the gap earlier. That was my signature move. I had faster 3,000-meter times indoors than outdoors until I went to Rieti in Italy and ran 7:29 flat in 2010.

GCR:

Even though you didn’t defend your World Championships Gold Medals from 2007, since the competition is so strong, how great was it to be on the podium in 2009 in Berlin with a Bronze Medal at 1,500 meters and to score Silver Medals at 5,000 meters in 2009 at Berlin just behind Kenenisa Bekele and in 2011 at Daegu?

It is thrilling to be on the podium. When I looked at the guys on the podium with me, they were younger guys. They looked at me and might have been thinking, ‘This old guy is still in here.’ My competitors were so gentlemanly and so happy for me. The Kenyans called me ‘old man’ in Swahili. It was a word of endearment in a respectful way. I embraced it. I felt great to be on the podium with the younger runners. I knew at some point I was going to run out of speed and would be too slow to compete. In my last Olympics in 2016, I knew it was close to the end of my ability to compete with these younger guys. Mo Farah of England, Paul Chelimo of the U.S. and Mo Ahmed of Canada were running so fast. I was competing tough, but the younger guys were tougher. I was no longer as fast, but the opportunity to be on the podium was great.

GCR:

Speaking of getting older, as a 41-year-old Masters runner in 2016, you ran 27:49 in the 10,000 meters to break the Masters World Record by 51 seconds and won the Olympic Trials to make your fifth Olympic team. Did you know that it was your final Olympic team, and was it frosting on the cake to make your fifth Olympic team?

Even in 2012, I thought that was my last team. But my coach and I talked, and he asked me if I still wanted to try to make one more team. He said, ‘You are still running fast.’ So, I said, ‘Lets’ do it!’ Once we made that decision, it was simple. I just needed someone to tell me I could make another team. Going into 2016, I was training as hard as I ever had. I was focused. Coach Li believed in me and thought why should we say ‘No’ to this unless I didn’t want it. I still wanted it. In 2016 I was running with much younger guys and knew that it was my final Olympics. I went to the Opening and Closing Ceremonies. I knew I wouldn’t be back again, and I was happy to be there and to finish. I finished fifth, but two runners were disqualified, and I found myself in the Bronze Medal position. I was inside the Medal ceremony area after the race, and it felt like a sacred place. The Medals are there, and the athletes are so happy. People were happy for me, but I was not happy. Frank Frederics, Hicham el Guerrouj and Seb Coe were there and congratulating me. But I knew those two guys had beat me and I was not celebrating. They may have stepped on the line, but worse infractions had happened before in races. I didn’t get impeded. They could have run even faster, but they were tangled up and I still lost to them. I did not feel good and did not want to accept the Bronze Medal. There was drama, the decision was reversed and then they were reinstated. I gave them a hug because they deserved it. It was crazy.

GCR:

You mentioned briefly a couple times about racing Mo Farah. How tough was Mo Farah as he nipped you 12:53.11 to 12:53.60 at the 2010 Monaco Diamond League 5,000 meters? Was that one of those races where both of you refused to lose but one of you had to?

I hate losing but, when we crossed the finish line, I was a sportsman and told Mo Farah ‘congratulations.’ He beat me fair and square. That is one race where I can’t figure out what went wrong. I executed the plan, but I lost. I don’t know why I lost, and that race bugged me for the longest time. I wanted to win but when I saw the time, it was an American Record and that was a little bit of solace. I remembered seeing him years earlier indoors and admired him as this lanky kid. Before I knew it, he was the grown-up Mo Farah who ended up being one of the greatest.

GCR:

In 2010 at the World Cup in Split, Croatia you won double Gold Medals in the 3,000 meters by 0.23 seconds and 5,000 meters by 0.12 seconds, both over Moses Ndiema Kipsiro of Uganda. How tough was Kipsiro and how exciting was it to win both of those World Cup races?

Those races were at the end of the season. I was training hard in Flagstaff and knew my season would be ending there in Croatia. Many of the athletes who competed were tired and not looking forward to competing. It’s amazing that I knew I was ready, and my mind could take me to the places I wanted to go. Most of the athletes raced more competitions than I did. I tried not to race more than twelve times each year. Other guys ran eighteen to twenty races. Moses Ndiema Kipsiro was one of the younger guys in the races, but he was a real competitor. I was ready and won both races. When I set my seasons up, I always wanted to know where I was ending my seasons so I wouldn’t push too hard and have nothing left. My coach and I planned and ensured we were doing the right things to maintain my fitness. When fatigue and tiredness come into play, often heart can take over.

GCR:

EARLY LIFE AND COLLEGIATE RUNNING Can you tell us about your life as a child in the Kaptel village in Kenya?

I started out having a simple life. I lived in the rural part of Kenya in Kaptel and don’t know how many people lived there, but it was not a lot. People were farmers but, when we say farmers, not large-scale farmers. There was subsistence farming where crops were grown to provide food to survive. We would have a cow for milk and sell a bit of milk for a little money. We grew corn that was harvested in September, dried, shelled and eaten until the next season. That is how I grew up. I was number five of ten children. I have three brothers and six sisters. My older sisters were the ones who started running in the family. My mom and dad supported their running. My mom and dad were deeply religious. When I was young, my dad would tell us that God gave us all we had. My dad started with less than one acre of land, and it grew to 28 acres. Dad said it wasn’t him, but the higher power. I grew up appreciating how my dad went from where he was before until where he was then. When I was still a little boy, my dad had a big meeting with people from the church. He gave them two acres of his land. He said, ‘It’s not my land anymore. You need to build a church on it.’ That was how my dad gave to the church for the community. I didn’t understand it at the time but, when I was older in high school and afterward. I understood. My dad was not a selfish person. He was a man who was simple and appreciated small things. Mom and dad sacrificed a lot. To grow the family land to 28 acres took both mom and dad.

GCR:

What can you relate us about how much physical activity you had, running to school from your home and about your early days in competitive running?

My sisters, Mary and Angelyne, were runners. Angelyne ran through high school but didn’t continue afterward. Mary decided to take it to the next level. When I was older, I saw that she was running everywhere. When we went to school, Mary did not walk. We ran to school because we didn’t want to be late. But Mary ran because she didn’t want to walk for her it was run, run, run. The school was about 1,500 meters from our home, so not too far. We would walk to school in the morning. We went home for lunch, went back to school for the afternoon session, and came home in the evening. Mary was running and in school she was not only the fastest girl, but she was beating all of the boys. I didn’t know much about it. I thought she loved running, but the P.E. teachers and coaches saw something in her and encouraged her. Before we knew it, Mary was in the newspapers because she won the Districts and Provincials and Nationals. While she was in high school, she went to the World Junior Championships in Brisbane, Australia. I was thinking, ‘Wow!’ I was a young boy and saw my sibling crossing across the world to Australia. How did she get there? A plane? Are you kidding me? I couldn’t believe it. The idea of going in an airplane or even going to Nairobi, the capitol city of Kenya, was like going to another country. Going to Nairobi was bigger than I could even think about. But my hard work and encouragement from Mary and my parents and my brother, William, helped me. I went to high school at a boarding school. There were boys who ran at the school, so I joined the running group. Before I knew it, I was one of the natural runners. I didn’t stand out as one of the best runners. I didn’t make it to Nationals until my senior year because I wasn’t that great. I loved it. I was competing and scoring points for my team. What really got me motivated was when Mary talked to me my senior year. She said she wanted me to do well academically so I could get a scholarship to go to the United States. Mary told me she could have gone to several colleges in the United States, but she turned professional as a runner so she could earn money to help our family and to build a house for our family. She sacrificed going to America to help support the family.

GCR:

When you ran in high school, did you run cross-country and track, were the tracks dirt surfaces, who was coaching you and what kind of workouts were you doing?

The running we did couldn’t even be called a workout. The P.E. teacher was our coach. We had no shoes. We ran cross-country and there wasn’t a set distance. Our cross-country course had us go far away in a circle. We didn’t know the distance. We didn’t know the time. We were running barefoot on dirt and roads, and it was crazy. We ran track as well. I ran 3,000 meters and once in a while I ran 1,500 meters. My fastest 1,500 meters my senior year was 4:06. And that was the first time that I was timed in a race. I knew my time was 4:06, but I didn’t know how good that was. I was still excited.

GCR:

Afterward, you went to the Jomo Kenyatta University College of Agriculture and Technology. Did running become more serious and did you have a true coach?

When someone in Kenya finishes high school, they don’t know where they are going to university until one year later when you find out where they are going to place you. When I finished high school, I didn’t know what would come next. I was ready to farm. I didn’t know if I would go to one university or a different university. In a good way I stumbled into Jomo Kenyatta University and this training system because a friend of mine, who was a basketball player, knew my sister who ran and knew the coach. He said don’t wait and that I should come to Jomo Kenyatta University. This is when things became real. This was the first time someone wrote a workout for me and timed a workout. We were doing repeat 400 meters. I thought this was great. We did interval training, and this was the first time I had heard of intervals. The coach, Nanon Ga, had come through the NCAA system and was a hurdler at Ole Miss. He was the Director of Athletics for Jomo Kenyatta University. He was smart. He was a mathematician. He knew all the numbers to analyze our running. I loved the coach from day one. He gave me all this lingo that I didn’t know. He coached me so well. I thrived through him. I was ahead of the guys I was training with, and I thought it was because they might not have been that fast. But the times my coach was recording for me indicated that I was fast. He knew my sister and told me that I had talent. He coached me until 1996 and I made the National finals in the 1,500 meters and ran 3:37.

GCR:

How did you find out about opportunities to receive an education and run in the USA and end up going to Washington State University, especially since it was all the way across the United States?

At that point, the coaches in America were looking at my 3:37 time and wanted to recruit me, especially when they found out I ran that fast at 7,000 feet of altitude. I knew about U.S. colleges. Even when I was in the village before I went to Jomo Kenyatta University, I was researching many colleges. Brother Colm, who coached David Rudisha to the 800-meters World Record later on, was a help. My sister knew him well and could call him at any time. I talked to Brother Colm when I was in high school. I didn’t know much about Washington State. Brother Colm told Mary one time that he was going to have visitors from Harvard at his house that I should meet. So, I met student-athletes from Harvard. We talked and they were excited to find I had good grades. Before I went to Jomo Kenyatta University, I was in contact with the Harvard coach. He was prepared to give me grants to attend Harvard since my grades and SAT score were high enough. Fairley Dickenson in New Jersey also talked to me. I did find out about Washington State and the great Kenyan athletes who ran there like Henry Rono, Samson Kimombwa and Julius Korir. My training partner, Eric, was going to go to Washington State plus a runner, Roscoe Kiplagat, who trained with me the previous year was at Washington State. Oklahoma State was also in the mix. When I knew Eric was going to Washington State, I decided I was going where Eric was going. I followed Eric because he was my best friend, he trained well with me, and he understood me. Eric made it possible for me to come to Washington State.

GCR:

How good was your English and how were the academics, and how challenging was it transitioning to the weather in Washington where there is a long period in the winter when it is cold and rainy and a new coach?

My culture was different. Runners in America were calling the coaches by their names. Some even called their parents by their names. The language was a little different. We studied in Kenya just like in the United States. English was a subject we studied since second grade. We also studied Swahili, but nobody used Swahili in other instructions. All the curriculum was in English. Back then I had a stronger accent, but I could speak and write very well. Sometimes the American dialect, lingo and pronunciation were a little different because I grew up speaking British English. The weather was the one thing I didn’t like very much. In Kenya, it is like being in Arizona except not as hot. In Kenya, we didn’t have winter and the seasons we have in the U.S. We had rainy season, cold season, and sunny season. But nothing was extreme. I came to the U.S. in August and in November the weather changed a lot. I woke up one morning in November and looked outside. It was white everywhere. It was my first snowfall. It shocked me. I asked my coach if I would be training on that or training indoors. He told me we would be running on the snow and roads. I got used to running in the snow, but didn’t get used to being cold.

GCR:

Let’s discuss some of your big NCAA races. First, it is amazing when we look at the top four finishers at the 1997 NCAA Cross Country Championships in Greenville, South Carolina. Meb Keflezighi won in 28:54, followed by Kevin Sullivan in 29:01, you in 29:05 and Adam Goucher in 29:10. That is like a ‘Who’s Who’ of distance running. Can you speak a bit about that race and, how you couldn’t have realized at the time, how great the top four runners were?

It is amazing. All of us became Olympians. The guys racing today are running fast, but we were truly competing hard. We were out there giving it all. Abdi Abdirahman was also very legit and in the mix. In the Pac-12 Conference it was very tough. There were the Hauser brothers at Stanford, Abdi Abdirahman at Arizona, Meb Keflezighi at UCLA, and me at Washington State. When I look at pictures from back in the day, I see Olympian, Olympian, Olympian, Olympian. We were serious. Those days are amazing days. We wanted to beat each other in competition but, afterward, there was appreciation for each other. I would train so hard and tell Coach Li, ‘I want to beat that guy from Colorado.’ He was beating me every time and I wanted to beat him.

GCR:

Speaking of Adam Goucher, at the 1998 NCAA Indoor 3,000 meters in Indianapolis, Adam Goucher ran 7:46.03 with you just behind in 7:46.45. Can you tell us about that race and what he had to do to beat you at one of your favorite distances and indoors where you loved racing?

He was fearless. If there is one thing to say about Adam, that dude was fearless. He would look other runners straight in the eyes with confidence, fearlessness and the attitude that he was going to beat you. He did not want anyone else to dictate the pace. He wanted to dictate the pace. There was no race where I saw him running from behind. That is not an easy way to win. Coach Li was one of the best coaches, but he knew I wasn’t a front runner, and that I was a chaser. I was one of those who would chase anybody. I would chase Adam Goucher. I would chase Seneca Lassiter. I could not lead. Adam could lead and he was confident and fearless.

GCR:

When we discuss chasing, the next year at the 1999 NCAA Indoor Championships, you won the mile in 3:55.65 over Bryan Berryhill in 3:56.73 and Seneca Lassiter in 3:57.22. Seneca Lassiter and two others passed you on the backstretch of lap six, Berryhill took the lead on the lap seven back stretch and then you sprinted past him into a ten-meter lead with a lap to go and a relatively easy win. What was it like to win your first NCAA title and to win so convincingly?

I am so happy you mentioned that race because I had not been able to win an NCAA race. That race was so good for me. Everyone thought that Seneca Lassiter was the man. It didn’t matter about the strategy; he was picked to win. Coach Li told me that I was strong, and I should just use him. Coach Li told me to stay close, not to give them too much room and to surprise them. The leaders were going fast, and I decided to hang tight. When I took off, my eyes went up and I went so fast. They didn’t know what was happening. I made a mistake by celebrating too early. I thought, ‘I’ve already won – yes!’ And I started slowing down. Coach Li told me, ‘I am so proud of you for winning but you celebrated too early. By putting that finger up in the air and slowing down, you missed the NCAA Record by two-hundredths of a second.’ Nonetheless, I was happy I won.

GCR:	Less than an hour later you came back in the 3,000 meters and ran 7:54.92, to best Michael Power at 7:55.36, Sean Kaley at 7:56.31, Julius Mwangi Wanjiru at 7:56.51 and five more runners in the 7:58s. Can you relate about that race and how you were on Power’s shoulder with a lap to go and cruised to win your second NCAA Championship?
BL	It was satisfying and I was incredibly happy. I hadn’t won a single NCAA event and now I won two. The guys I raced had seen how I won the mile, they ran hard, but they knew I could kick. My strategy was to not do much of the work, let the other guys work and then unleash my kick.

GCR:	At the 1999 NCAA Outdoors in the 5,000 meters in Boise, Idaho you raced strongly with Brad Hauser, who you spoke about briefly. Can you tell us how tough he was to beat down the home stretch as you ran 14:01.69 with Brad Hauser at 14:01.82?
BL	He was going all in. He wanted to win. In the 1,500 meters I had lost to Clyde Colenso of Southern Methodist, Seneca Lassiter, and Bryan Berryhill. The 5,000 meters wasn’t a fast time. It was slow and tactical and that is why I was able to win.

GCR:

One closing item at NCAAs is that, in summary, you were a three-time champion and 11-time NCAA All-American. When you look back, is it a nice feather in your cap to have these collegiate achievements?

Yes, and it told me the power of hard work and mental toughness. I couldn’t take anything for granted. I wasn’t going to be the best if I didn’t train hard. I had an example when I was younger from my sister who was training when the rest of us were milking cows. It could be six o’clock in the evening and dark because we were so close to the equator in Kenya, and Mary was running. So, I knew that to be the best would take hard work. I listened to my coach and worked hard. But I had unfinished business. Coach Li challenged me my first week in college when he told me he wanted me to be the best in college, to be the best in the world and to go to the Olympics. I believed it and knew that I had to be different. I had to know when to say no. I had to set goals. I needed to study and be a good student. I was lucky to see what my sister did and how hard she worked. I felt that I didn’t want to disappoint my sister. When I didn’t win, I wanted to work harder. I was competing at a higher level than Mary did, but I appreciated what she did for me as a young man.

GCR:

OTHER IMPORTANT RACES In 2005 at the World Athletics Final at 3,000 meters it came down to Eliud Kipchoge and you in a close home stretch as you won in 7:38.00 with Kipchoge at 7:38.95. What can you tell us about that race?

I remember that race clearly because I usually was racing 1,500 meters and wasn’t scheduled to run the 3,000 meters. I was added at the last minute to the 3,000 meters to the dismay of some of the other runners. Some of them were wondering why I was running the 3,000 meters since I was always running the 1,500 meters and had already done so in the meet. The meet organizers had one open spot and had the opportunity to add whomever they wished. For me it was a challenge. I thought that, if I was going to be lining up in the final Grand Prix race, it was perfect. It wasn’t 5,000 meters, but only 3,000 meters. I felt it was going to be fun. I had nothing to lose. I decided to hang in tight and not do any work and that is what happened. The biggest factor in a race like that is that there are guys who can drop times in the 7:20s with no sweat. They decided to go easy at the beginning. My thoughts in my head were for them to keep going at that pace and they did for one lap after another. I felt that, when there were four laps to go, now we were racing only one mile. Surely enough they went slow and there was a mile to go and then 800 meters to go. I thought, ‘Okay boys, now the race can start.’ I had a better kick than most of the runners because I had better 800 meter speed.

GCR:

Three years later at the 2008 World Athletics Final in Stuttgart, Germany, the 3,000 meters went out even more slowly as you won in 8:02.97 with Edwin Cheruiyot, Matt Tegenkamp and Mike Kipruto all a half second back. Did they unintentionally set the race up for you to win?

Yes, and I don’t know why. They know that I can run easily under four minutes for the last mile, so why would they take out the pace so slow and play into my strength. It was the final Grand Prix meet so there wasn’t any concern about times. Runners were ready to race hard, get a paycheck, and go home. The other runners ran slowly, and my intention was to go out there and win. For me, the thought was to go to work and get that money.

GCR:

Another venue and meet that is great for athletes from all over the world to run is the Prefontaine Classic in Eugene, Oregon with all that Steve Prefontaine has meant to American and worldwide running. How exciting was it to you to win the 2008 Prefontaine Classic 2-mile with a fast time of 8:12.45 and then to come back the next year in 2009 Prefontaine Classic to win the 3,000 meters in 7:35.92 in front of the great Eugene crowd?

One thing that is so special about Eugene is that the crowd are such great fans of the sport. They know more than most of the athletes who are competing. The athletes who compete know their ranking and about their competition. When I went to Eugene to run, it was like running in my second home. We ran in Eugene when I was in college at Washington State. My coach even took us on a bus to a dual meet against Oregon in Eugene. So, I knew Eugene and Hayward field very well. As I became a young professional, in 1999 and 2000, I ran in the Prefontaine Classic. I ran there as a Puma athlete and, when I signed up with Nike, it was one of the meets we were required to run. The crowd was so good that they would even watch the whole 10,000 meters when it was cold and raining. In other places, people would go home, but not in Eugene because the crowd was amazing. They were great when I won the two-mile and the following year when I won the 3,000 meters. Both times it was special.

GCR:

In your lengthy and outstanding career, you had many victories in Europe, including in Athens, Berlin, London, Melbourne, Glasgow, Rieti, and Stockholm. Are there any other races in Europe that stand out in your memory due to the venue, competition, or weather?

The one that stands out is the one against Hicham el Guerrouj that we talked about earlier. He had won in Edmonton, Canada in the 1,500 meters and I was second. Then we both went to Europe that summer and one of the biggest races was the one in Brussels. I told my agent that I had nothing to lose, and I was ready for a fast race after Edmonton. Hicham el Guerrouj and his camp kept a tight secret with the pacemakers that he was planning to run an amazing World Record pace. I didn’t know that but was mentally ready for a fast race. My mental state helped me. When he was running at 3:26 pace, I just ran with him and wasn’t thinking about anything except to go fast. That race sticks out because I ran the second fastest time in the world to this day after twenty-four years. That was run of my favorite races. Also, there was the race in Zurich in 2004 as we were getting ready to go to Athens for the Olympics. It was three weeks before the Olympics and Hicham el Guerrouj and I lined up for 1,500 meters and I beat him for the first time. That was a major race for me to beat Hicham el Guerrouj before Athens. It gave me this great confidence to go to Athens to get that Gold Medal. I came in with that mentality but came up a bit short. The Zurich race gave me the confidence to win, but I made a couple technical errors in Athens, and he was the better runner on that day. There was also a small meet in a town in Germany where people would come to watch from many other small towns. I ran many of my fastest times there. I would drive to town on the Autobahn one day and race the following day. The meet was so small that the fans loved it that I went there to race. Additionally, everywhere I went in the United Kingdom, they all knew my name. They were very welcoming there from the beginning of my career until it ended, and I had many great performances in the U.K.

GCR:

TRAINING Underneath all this great racing is great training. Several athletes I have interviewed had the same coach for their entire career. Todd Williams was one athlete who did so. What were Coach James Li’s overall philosophies and what was the advantage of having one coach for so many years?

Coach Li emphasized the ideas of training smart and being patient. I knew and trusted that he had my best interest and was going to get me to my best performance. In the beginning of the season, we would map out our races and then when we wanted to be at peak performance. Coach Li understood every phase of training from fundamentals to each period of training with the understanding that we were aiming to peak at a specific time. Because we trained smart, we avoided burnouts. I was also able to avoid injuries. Plus, we competed in few races and picked them out carefully so I could race well. I surrounded myself with people who were great. One is my wife, Gladys, who is an athletic trainer and a dietician. Having her was crucial. We stayed on top of injuries, and I also was super lucky. There are other athletes who were exceptionally good but were unlucky to get injured. My heart goes out to them because I know it is disappointing. I was happy with everything we were doing.

GCR:

Can you take us through your phases of training in terms of base building, long runs, hills, and tempo runs, repetitions that focused on strength, speed or a combination and finally track specific shorter intervals to get you racing sharp?

In the fundamental phase we started on November first with the training that was going to carry me all the way through the end of the season. That is when I started my buildup phase. Then we used the indoor season as preparation for outdoor season. I went into the outdoor season with mileage in my legs. People were surprised that I went into indoor season with only hard tempo runs and not fast track sessions. Even in 2006 in January when I wasn’t able to train fully, I went to New York and still raced fast indoors. I did that with base training and only a little speed work. I was running forty-five to fifty miles a week and people were laughing because that is easy mileage for high school runners. But I was a low mileage guy. Forty-five miles in a week was a lot for me. I started doing some double runs on days with a second run of twenty minutes. But I usually just did twenty minutes of stretching in the morning and a good, quality run in the afternoon. I ran fast almost every day that I ran. In April we would go to Flagstaff for altitude training for four or five weeks. We weren’t too scientific about it. The plan was to get in good training without all the distractions of home that could disrupt my training program. In Flagstaff, we did faster tempo runs and hill sessions. Coach Li knew that I was particularly good at tempo runs. That is when I felt the strongest. A fast tempo run was better for me than a track workout. Six miles was our longest tempo run. I ran very, very fast. When we got to one month before the season, we did specific intervals and knew we had to wrap it up before the peak races so I would be fast for 1,500 meters. We would sharpen the edge so, whenever a race started, we were ready for it. Coach Li, my agent, and I never went to my first race with the thought, ‘Let’s see how we do.’ That was never a supposition. It may be the first race of the season but, if I could get my fastest time, I would go to get it there. We trained since November, went through all the phases and, as we were planning to peak, what could I show each race. I always did my best. Nearly every year, in my first race I ran fast.

GCR:

How did your training change when you moved up in distance to 5,000 meters and to take into account that you were older, and you may require more rest and recovery?

It was challenging and exciting. I was excellent at the 1,500 meters and the mile and appreciated the challenge of racing 5,000 meters and worked on it very much. My coach was smart and designed the training that was going to help me. My tempo runs became a little slower, but longer. I was able to simulate the 5k race. That helped me. Coach Li put me with the longer distance guys in training like Stephen Sambu and I worked on my weaknesses. He had me run 1,000-meter repeats which I wasn’t excited about, but it was a challenge I was happy to accept. Adapting to the longer races mentally and physically was a test for me, but I saw others who had done so, and I knew I wasn’t weak. Once I started challenging myself and believing in myself to hold the pace for the longer distance without sacrificing my 1,500-meter speed, then I was able to handle the 5k.

GCR:

ROAD RACING When you were a master runner, you ran some strong road races at distances up to the marathon. The first race I wish to discuss is the Peachtree Road race 10k, which I have run and is so iconic. You won the 2018 Peachtree 10k in 28:45 with Haron Lagat three seconds back in 24:48, Tyler Pennell at 28:49 and Lopez Lamong also in the lead group. How exciting was it to win the big July 4th, American Independence Day race, as a U.S. citizen?

It was so exciting. The year before that I ran Peachtree for the first time, and I realized it had a different kind of atmosphere. It was so huge and so packed with good runners. It is one of the biggest races I have ever run. I knew that I wanted to win this race. In 2017, I came in fourth place. For 2018, I knew exactly how to train and talked about it with Coach Li. The first half is more downhill, and the second half is more uphill. For 2018, I came back to Tucson, and I prepared myself well. I went to this place called West Monument in Tucson that has rolling hills on a dirt and sand road. It is the toughest training, but I knew that, if I trained there, I was going to win. There was no other place that could prepare me better than West Monument. Coach Li and I talked about how I was running faster than ever at West Monument, and I knew I was ready to win. The day before the race, I was able to take a tour of the Peachtree course. I took my notes. I had a quiet demeanor and stored my own mental notes. When I got back to the hotel, I charted my race strategy, called Coach Li, and reviewed it with him. I knew I wanted to stick with the guys in the front group and to feel comfortable. That is what happened. I was comfortable because of the training I had done. It was a perfect day with the National Anthem before the race. It was the best feeling before the race and really cool to win.

GCR:

You moved up in November, 2018 to the marathon distance at the New York City Marathon and did have a 1:03:02 half marathon under your belt from the 2017 Great North Run Half Marathon. What was it like to run the iconic New York City Marathon where you finished 18th in 2:17:20 and won the master division by over eleven minutes?.

I give the most respect to anyone who has run the New York City Marathon because that course is so tough. There are some long bridges that feel like they take forever. The crowds are unbelievable, and you have to be careful not to run too fast as I did in the middle and then the pace got to me. I could feel the crowd when I came off the one bridge after halfway and it was fun to run there. I had wanted to race there for a long time. They had invited me many times and, even in 2008 for the Olympic Trials Marathon, had invited me to be on the lead vehicle which I did. It was so great, and I knew I would be coming back to run but it took me ten more years. It helped me to learn how to run a marathon which is why my next one got better.

GCR:

Let’s go right into your final marathon and what are your biggest memories and takeaways from February 2020, where you placed 18th with a time of 2:14:23 in the Atlanta Olympic Trials Marathon on that three-loop course?

I was content with what I did there. I wasn’t expecting much but whenever I show up, I show up fully. I ran as hard as I could. The course beat me up. There were so many climbs, so many turns, so many hills. Since we repeated the same loop three times, that was mentally tough. I had trained with guys in Kenya, including Eliud Kipchoge, and I credit that for how well I raced. Those guys in Kenya were beasts and could go hard so I was hanging with them as long as I could. The weather and course in Atlanta were tough. If the race was on a course that was flatter, I think I would have done better. Nonetheless, it was my last professional race, and I could not have asked for a better way to end my career. Since it was our USA Olympic Trials, the race started with the National Anthem and ended with giving respect to the people who have done a lot for my journey and the fans I gained along the way.

GCR:

COACHING You’ve been coaching at the University of Arizona for about five years. What are the differences in motivating over ten athletes of varying talent and dedication versus self-motivation?

I have found with college kids, if I show them the way, they will follow. That is my motivation. That is what Coach Li did for me and is what I do for the runners I coach. We set goals, are dedicated to the work and I encourage them not to have excuses. They can’t tell me they ran poorly because they stayed up late studying. I let them know that I realize they are student-athletes, but I show them the way that I did things as a college student-athlete and as a professional. I know what is going through their minds and their bodies. When they are aching, I know what they mean because I went through that also. When they have a problem. I can let them know what I did with a similar challenge. At Arizona, we have an athletic staff of trainers and doctors, and they take care of the athletes and help them any day. We have also added mental health, which is a big aspect of care. I embrace it and encourage my athletes to take advantage of it being available. There is no stigma. I show my athletes the way and I hold them accountable. That is what Coach Li did for me. When my athletes ask me how I was so successful, I tell them I was disciplined, had no excuses, worked, and they needed to do the same. If an athlete doesn’t do this, I know they won’t be successful. I send that message with plain language and facts to show that hard work plus dedication correlates with results. Sometimes there is an injury, but that is part of it. Most of the people I have coached have worked hard and are successful. I did have to learn that there are different skill levels in those I coach and that was hard for me. I was high-performing and now I may have a runner who can only run what may have been a time trial for me. For some of them, my time trial time is better than their fastest time ever. So, I have to design a workout for those runners that develops them and helps them to attain success. I also have to recognize that success can be different. It may be consistency, running personal best times, or improvement. I show them how to be the best they can be.

GCR:

In addition to working with the athletes when they are at Arizona, what are the challenges of attracting top talent and developing them to compete in the Big 12 Conference with top programs such as Oklahoma State, BYU, and Iowa State and then also dealing with the transfer portal and NIL which complicate matters? And does the fact that every runner knows who you are and what you accomplished help greatly?

We have to navigate all these changes at the NCAA level. It seems that every week and every day there is something new. We have to embrace and navigate that. We have to have results as coaches. If not, it will be hard to recruit top athletes. That is me being truthful. I am still building the program. Sometimes I don’t get the top-caliber athletes, but I know where we are headed and what we hope to achieve.

GCR:

MISCELLANEOUS AND WRAPUP You are a 15-time USA Champion and four-time captain of Team USA. What does it mean to win the USA Championships and to captain the entire team?

Winning is always a dream. When we line up, we all want to win. When we win, we think of all we did to get there. It is one of those moments when I look back and think that this wasn’t easy. I had to sweat hard. I am also thankful for the people that organized the meet, that invited me, and for all the support I received. Winning isn’t only for me, but for so many people that helped me. When you become a captain, it is an honor bestowed upon you. The other athletes know you are tough. They know you are working. They know you are a person of integrity. When you open your mouth, people will listen, not only because I am Bernard Lagat, but because my entire background carries a lot of weight. When Kobe Bryant was talking to the USA Olympic basketball team, we could see the other players listening to him before they went out to play and win the Gold Medal. I remember one year when Sanya Richards-Ross and I were selected to be the captains for Team USA at the World Indoor Championships in Turkey. The day before the meet, the coaches were saying powerful words. We said only a few words. Sanya and I looked at them in the eyes and said, ‘We are here. Let’s do the work.’ Sanya went out on fire and won a Gold Medal in her race. Then I came back and won a Gold Medal as a captain. We won so many Gold Medals because our fellow athletes were listening to us. If they had any problems or challenges, we were there. It is an honor to be Captain, and we don’t take it for granted.

GCR:

What are some highlights of being a liaison between USATF athletes and World Athletics, where you advocated for athletes in areas such as safeguarding, rule changes, schedules, safety, financial matters, and venue selections?

When I was selected to be a liaison with World Athletics, the USA athletes in Doha voted for me and so did the athletes of the world. It was a great honor to serve. There are so many things I helped with including competition matters, awards, and hosting bids from different countries. We worked on rules of gender. We consulted with athletes about everything we did. I served for four years and then my term was up. It was a quick turnaround. But the work we do advances the sport. One of my assignments was safe sport. In many countries procedures aren’t done correctly and we all want to abide by the same rules. When my four years were over, they retained me on the safeguarding task force at the World Athletics level. As a USATF Board member, my assignments are also with safeguarding athletics as far as safe sport and clean sport. So, I worked in these areas with World Athletics and continue to do so with USATF.

GCR:

Over the years, you have received many awards, accolades and several Hall of Fame inductions. What can you relate about being awarded the 2023 Great Immigrants which were awarded to a group of remarkable Americans by Carnegie Corporation?

The Great Immigrants Award was great because it highlights what this country is all about. The strength of this country isn’t just from those who are already here, but someone like me who came from Kenya contributes in ways that are different from those who were born here. Now that we are citizens, we help the USA to advance in the workplace and in the world. If it is good for humanity, we are doing it. That is the strength of this country. I have never been someone to shy away from diversity, equity, and inclusion. That is what makes this country strong. Some people may say different things but being a Great Immigrant emphasizes certain values that lift up people. When I came to the United States, what did I do? I was a student and competed in a sport. Now as a college coach, what am I doing? I am helping athletes on the collegiate level. Outside of that, what can I do as a USATF and World Board Member? I want everyone to compete through safe sport and not be exploited. That is the contribution that we seek. As long as I engage in my sport, that is what I will seek as I have that passion. So, receiving that Great Immigrants Award was amazing. When I look at the list of who received it, there are many who have achieved so much in life and I am on the same page with them. The story of me is there with the story of them.

GCR:

Since you ended your professional running and racing career five years ago and recently turned fifty years old, what is your current training and fitness program?

When I was fifty years old this past December, I was wondering if the day after was going to be different. But I felt the same and that was a good thing. I do realize that I am not getting younger, and I need to exercise often. I ride a bike regularly. I used to run with my athletes. When I was training for the marathon in 2020, I used to be up there with my athletes. They knew they would have to run hard because their coach was running with them. I could run hard and hold a sub-five-minute pace. My athletes were saying, ‘This is the coach, and he is running sub-fives for the tempo run?’ That was my specialty, but I can’t do that anymore. So, I ride the bike. In fact, as we are talking, I have a brace on my hand and cuts and bruises because I took a dump on my bike on the weekend. My wife and I do have the thought that out of a seven-day week, we have to do some type of exercise on at least five days. We have to run outside, bike, run on the treadmill – we have to do something and if we fail there are consequences. Right now, I can’t exercise since I fell off the bike. I’m not moving the way I’m supposed to be moving. We do have a new treadmill called the Boost treadmill at the university that is amazing, especially for me because I have been getting calf soreness when I run five days straight on the road. The Boost treadmill is antigravity, and I can set it for seventy-five percent body weight and run for an hour. My calves love it, and I can get fit.

GCR:

What are the major lessons you have learned during your life from growing up in a small village in Kenya, coming to the USA, academics and athletics in focus, the discipline and sacrifice that running encourages, balancing life’s aspects, and adversity you have faced that encompasses the philosophy of Bernard Lagat which will encourage people to reach their potential as a runner and as a human being?

It starts with knowing yourself. That is important. When you know yourself, you know your abilities. If you find something that works for you, then capitalize on it and do that well. In the big picture, I wasn’t the most studious person, but I got my degree in Management Information Systems and Decision Science. I didn’t use that, but I found I was good at running and I became one hundred percent committed to running. In addition to knowing your abilities, know your weaknesses. For everything I have been able to do, and I tell my athletes, we have a lot of positives. So, capitalize on the positives. The negatives, which we call weaknesses, we can strengthen. Doing your best is important and helps you go forward. Also, I believe in taking one day at a time. If you plan too far ahead, you may miss the beginning steps. Taking one step at a time and one day at a time in everything you do will make you get better. If someone wants to compete at the NCAA level, but it is twenty steps away, then work on the first steps to get there. In conclusion, know yourself, take your time and go day by day on a charted path that will lead you to successes.

	Inside Stuff
Hobbies/Interests	I like to cook. I have always been the one to barbecue. I do it very well, and my wife knows that. The hardest meats to cook are chicken and salmon to get so that they are not rubbery, and I am okay with both. I like spending time with my family. If I were to do nothing else, I would love to spend time with Gladys and Gigi. I don’t get to spend time with Miika now because he is at the University of Victoria in Canada. I also reach out to my mom and dad and my siblings in Kenya. I try my best, but sometimes a few weeks or a month can go by
Nicknames	I didn’t have nicknames when I was growing up. My first nickname when I came to the United States was ‘Kip.’ My middle name is ‘Kipchirchir.’ When my teammate, Derrick, at Washington State University heard people calling me ‘Kipchirchir,’ he did not like the way it sounded. He felt that Americans were killing that name the way they said it. He got so upset that he said, ‘Guys, from this day forward we will call him Kip.’ That was easy and became my nickname
Favorite movies	‘Remember the Titans’ is my all-time favorite. I love Denzel Washington
Favorite TV shows	Whatever my wife watches, I will sit down and watch except the ‘Housewives’ shows. I don’t watch those
Favorite music	Michael Jackson is my top artist. My number two is Tupac Shakur
Favorite books	My top book is called ‘Happiness.’ It is about your brain and how it can be hot-wired for happiness. The author is Aminatta Forna. It deals with bringing together all we do and how we can be happy. It is an intriguing book
First car	My first car was a Pontiac Grand Am that was green in color. I bought it in Moscow, Idaho. I had that car for a long time
Other cars	When my brother and sister came to the United States, they used that Pontiac Grand Am, and I upgraded to a Nissan Pathfinder. I ended up selling that to my brother. Then I got a Mercedes Benz, but the upkeep became too much
Current car	A Ford Mustang Mach-E which is electric
First Jobs	I worked in Kenya, and I made zero cents. I worked for my dad, and it helped to put food on the table. As kids, we had to work our butts off every weekend when we weren’t in school. My first job where I was able to get paid was an amazing job. I was washing dishes at Taco Bell in the Student Union at Washington State University
Family	My parents are Richard and Marsalina. I am the fifth child of ten and have six sisters and three brothers. My sisters are Angeline, Mary, Tecla, Everlyne, Irine and Viola. My brothers are William, Nathan and Robert. I married Gladys Tom on October 10, 2004. We have a daughter, Gianna, nicknamed ‘Gigi,’ and a son, Miika
Pets	My dad likes dogs. We had a dog called, ‘Simba,’ when I was a young teenager. That was the first time I realized that dogs were smart. Simba was able to protect our chickens from the eagles. I loved Simba so much. When I was an adult, Gladys and I got a pug we called ‘Miss Piggy.’ She went to Europe with me every summer. ‘Miss Piggy’ passed on after nine years
Favorite breakfast	I like eggs and toast
Favorite meal	I’m a pasta guy and like it with some protein like chicken. I also like rice and fish. All my meals have to have protein every night
Favorite beverages	: I’ve got to where I truly like flavored sparkling water. I tried Kombucha for a while but went on to the flavored sparkling water. I don’t drink much fruit juice
First running memory	Running with my sister. I was barefoot when she was at running practice and I lasted one mile or less. Mary was too fast
Running heroes	My sister, Mary, and then Kip Keino in that order. Everyone that was alive in my time in Kenya knew of Kipchoge Keino. He was on many commercials. If you turned the TV on, he was there talking about Coca-Cola, Palmolive Soap, Tylenol, and other items. Since Mary was the first in the family to start running, she was my top one
Greatest running moments	Winning the Prefontaine Classic races in front of the great crowds. In 2016 when I crossed the line to win the Olympic Trials 5,000 meters. I qualified for the Olympics with Paul Chelimo and Hassan Mead and one of them lifted me up so quickly. There is a picture of it and that is one of my proudest moments. I told them, ‘We were all born somewhere and we made the team. This is why we need to give back in many, many ways.’ The Olympics in 2004 with Hicham el Guerrouj when I thought I would win Gold, but I came in second. It is a favorite moment because I gave one hundred and twenty percent and I lost. I came in second place, but a happy second place
Most disappointing running moment	The hardest one was when I didn’t make the USA team in 2015 to go to the World Championships. We had our trip planned with hotels and flights. When we look back, from 2001 and forward, every time I made the World Championships. I was sick and was feeling down and I didn’t make the team. After the race when there was an interview, I broke down because I felt I had let everyone down. Also, that was the year that I thought, ’Maybe time is catching up with me. I am close to forty-one years old. Maybe this is the end for me.’ It was the worst feeling being in Eugene and not making the team to go to Beijing. I was crying, my kids were hugging me, and we were all crying. I was so emotional
Childhood dreams	I grew up in a Catholic family. I looked at the Priests who were doing God’s service and I wanted to be a Priest. I applied for Seminary school after eighth grade. My grades were not that great. I took placement exams and didn’t get accepted. I one hundred percent wanted to be a priest. I was disappointed and went to the local high school. When I was in high school, I thought, ‘Since I can’t be a priest, maybe I will join the Air Force and fly one of those jets.’ I thought I was going to be an Air Force pilot in Kenya, but then I came to America
Funny memories
Embarrassing moment
Favorite places to travel	In the USA, I like going to San Diego, California. The beach is so beautiful. The landscape is nice, and the town is not so crazy populated. You can go to Sea World with your kids. To this day, I love that area. If I were to live somewhere besides Tucson, San Diego might be the place. My second place is Victoria, Canada. That is my second home because my son is in college there. That Island in British Columbia is amazing